The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Can every trick be improved on? (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..8~9~10~11 [Next]
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1107 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Magicians tend to obsessively latch on to and adere to phrases and concepts unnecessarily like: He stopped thinking too soon or, the magic is always stronger in the spectators' hands. I find it cyclical. Cant wait for the next flawed frenzy.


Agreed. I find it silly that magicians see such obvious notions as pearls of wisdom.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Because he is of the opinion that it can be improved. I asked how.
Simple. The suggestions don't have to be his.
I thought the trick would be a good one to present opposing positions. No big deal.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1107 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Great! Just as long as we're clear that a failure to answer that question isn't a failure of the argument.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
"Even though she was still fooled by the trick, that remark 
ought to scare the daylights out 
of any thinking magician. It did me. 
It also made me reconsider the conventional bromide that you 
should strive to do magic in the spectators' hands. Tain't 
necessarily so..." 
John Bannon
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Night fellas. Back tomorrow.
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2969 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Uh... no magicfish, I'm sorry, but he's done what I described.

You didn't describe anything except a couple of ideas to make Darwin Ortiz' trick better.
Admirable and interesting, but not improvements in my opinion.
Are you saying that Tamsriz has improved the Ortiz trick?


I described two approaches that would improve Ortiz's trick, and then I described a third approach which eliminated the need for a second deck altogether, where the magician simply puts his card face down first before the spectator names whatever card they like, and they match. Tamariz has done the third.

I think I can see what the issue here is... when people offer you possible features to add to a trick, your mind jumps to the methodological compromises that would have to be made to actually pull the trick off, and that causes you to dismiss the features as improvements. Am I correct there?
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1107 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"Even though she was still fooled by the trick, that remark 
ought to scare the daylights out 
of any thinking magician. It did me. 
It also made me reconsider the conventional bromide that you 
should strive to do magic in the spectators' hands. Tain't 
necessarily so..." 
John Bannon


You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands. A rather obvious case of the Too Perfect Theory.

You also left out the part where Bannon basically says, "Nevertheless, I still perform it that way..." Smile
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2969 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands.


Ah well, there you go. Daley's Last Trick, while pretty good, is definitely a candidate for further improvement. Thank goodness for Fechter.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1107 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands.


Ah well, there you go. Daley's Last Trick, while pretty good, is definitely a candidate for further improvement. Thank goodness for Fechter.


Fechter? I hardly knew her.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1107 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
And yes, I agree. Fechter fixed that basic dynamic.

We have fun here, folks.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26943 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2019, magicfish wrote:
In 1997 I sat with Eugene Burger in New York.
He had a lady deal shuffled cards onto a tray I was holding and I was to say stop whenever I liked. She dealt, I said stop. 6 of spades.
The cards were taken away and I was told to turn over the tray. The entire bottom of the tray was one giant 6 of spades.
I was shattered to the core.
23 years later I still haven't figured out a way to improve it.
Some tricks just cant be improved.

@magicfish, Great that you got to enjoy some time with Eugene Burger. And also great that you were affected by that item.

Did Eugene Burger share his thoughts about developing that item. If it's in print let's call it by name, okay? (citation please - that way I can get his perspective before making comment about his item)

There's a feedback loop of design, rehearse, perform, get feedback and repeat in the improvement process. I don't know where you are in that process with that item since you gave it as an example. Do your performances of that item get the same response as Eugene's performance did?

Go with phenomena, noumena, or Mah Nŕ Mah Nŕ?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Uh... no magicfish, I'm sorry, but he's done what I described.

You didn't describe anything except a couple of ideas to make Darwin Ortiz' trick better.
Admirable and interesting, but not improvements in my opinion.
Are you saying that Tamsriz has improved the Ortiz trick?


I described two approaches that would improve Ortiz's trick, and then I described a third approach which eliminated the need for a second deck altogether, where the magician simply puts his card face down first before the spectator names whatever card they like, and they match. Tamariz has done the third.

I think I can see what the issue here is... when people offer you possible features to add to a trick, your mind jumps to the methodological compromises that would have to be made to actually pull the trick off, and that causes you to dismiss the features as improvements. Am I correct there?

Good morning. That sounds more like Bannons AK-47 than Ortiz' Do as I Did. No?
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2019, magicfish wrote:
In 1997 I sat with Eugene Burger in New York.
He had a lady deal shuffled cards onto a tray I was holding and I was to say stop whenever I liked. She dealt, I said stop. 6 of spades.
The cards were taken away and I was told to turn over the tray. The entire bottom of the tray was one giant 6 of spades.
I was shattered to the core.
23 years later I still haven't figured out a way to improve it.
Some tricks just cant be improved.

@magicfish, Great that you got to enjoy some time with Eugene Burger. And also great that you were affected by that item.

Did Eugene Burger share his thoughts about developing that item. If it's in print let's call it by name, okay? (citation please - that way I can get his perspective before making comment about his item)

There's a feedback loop of design, rehearse, perform, get feedback and repeat in the improvement process. I don't know where you are in that process with that item since you gave it as an example. Do your performances of that item get the same response as Eugene's performance did?

Go with phenomena, noumena, or Mah Nŕ Mah Nŕ?

I don't perform it.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands.


Ah well, there you go. Daley's Last Trick, while pretty good, is definitely a candidate for further improvement. Thank goodness for Fechter.

Fechter? What about him?
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"Even though she was still fooled by the trick, that remark 
ought to scare the daylights out 
of any thinking magician. It did me. 
It also made me reconsider the conventional bromide that you 
should strive to do magic in the spectators' hands. Tain't 
necessarily so..." 
John Bannon


You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands. A rather obvious case of the Too Perfect Theory.

You also left out the part where Bannon basically says, "Nevertheless, I still perform it that way..." Smile


"He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands."
- precisely.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"Even though she was still fooled by the trick, that remark 
ought to scare the daylights out 
of any thinking magician. It did me. 
It also made me reconsider the conventional bromide that you 
should strive to do magic in the spectators' hands. Tain't 
necessarily so..." 
John Bannon


You're leaving out the context. He's referring to performing Daley's Last Trick in a spectator's hands. A rather obvious case of the Too Perfect Theory.

You also left out the part where Bannon basically says, "Nevertheless, I still perform it that way..." Smile

So you agree with me that not every trick is better in the spectators hands.
I'm pleasantly surprised.
Just gonna prep dinner guys. Standby.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Ok the roast is in. Prime Rib Sunday baby!
I feel that in art there are some things that cannot be improved. This is purely subjective of course.
The Mona Lisa
St. Paul's Cathedral
The Taj Mahal
People seem ok with this. It doesn't anger them.
In music,
Imagine- Lennon
Yesterday- McCartney
Spring- Vivaldi.
People seem ok with this.

I wouldn't dream of tinkering with them or trying to improve them .

In magic,
Lance Burton's FISM routine
Slydini's coins thru table
Neilsons Floating Violin

Now it gets shaky, but generally, most agree.

But dare say that a piece of card magic can attain this same status and all of a sudden it's:
Just cause you cant do it doesn't mean it cant be.
He stopped thinking too soon, and
We have to improve everything etc.

Funny how in an art we revere and devote our lives to we cant find one item that should just be left alone and adored for what it is.

Commence lambasting.
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
344 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Lambasting? I thought it was prime rib? Personally I like an end cut so I cag get the salty taste, but the tradeoff is the meat is generally a warmer temperature than I like. But life is full of concessions.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26943 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
If you're performing a work as taught to you and you feel it's fine as is - then great for you. All the better to have some initial exposure to the item as ideal goal for your performances. Your feelings about a work don't require validation from others. Others may respect your choices as regards a work though their own sensibilities direct them toward their own objectives as regards the work.

Is Eugene Burger's dealing cards onto a tray and revelation in print? I'm holding out comment on that item till I know its status. (citation?)

If you like Norm Neilson's violin routine go tell him. That's part of the feedback process for living artists. If they have published you have some options about using aspects of the routine as they suit your purposes.

Leonardo was a fine painter and the Mona Lisa is a fine example of a portrait. Do other painters use that shading technique to enhance faces in their portraits?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
I don't quite understand what you're saying Jon.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Can every trick be improved on? (9 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..8~9~10~11 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.29 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL