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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Sleights that wont fool anyone (26 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Harry Lorayne
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Right on, davidpaus. Thank the Lord I never listened to that font of knowledge, Pupkin - so I've been ENTERTAINING, let me be sure he "gets it" - E-N-T-E-R-T-A-I-N-I-N-G with card magic for about 80 years. If we all listened to font-of-knowledge Pupkin there would never be any "magic entertainers."
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diamondjack
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I'm glad you responded Harry. A good example of what I was talking about is that I would rather use your "Turnover Change" in place of the mexican turnover since it accomplishes the same thing but the turnover change is more structurally sound. Of course it would depend on the skill of the preformer, but all other things being equal, I would prefer the turnover change for its deceptiveness.
Harry Lorayne
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Of course. The basic Turnover Change is Paul Curry's - and a bit of misdirection...looking at the card at say, the left, as you turn over the card at the right helps to "misdirect."

I've added a few touches/additions to the basic move in CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC.
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Mr Salk
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The Mexican Turnover is used by some street-hustlers in Three Card Monte. It would be physically dangerous is it didn't fool everyone...
.


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j100taylor
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The glide...
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NEKKODDD
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The Flustration count
Melephin
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I agree 100% with Harry Lorayne. It is always the performer.

Speaking of the flustration count: that move is great and works perfectly if the timing is right and if you didn't bring it to peoples attention, to burn your hands extra carefully. I have seen magicians they go like: "Look, I have 10 Ace of Spades." Then they do the flustration count. At that point, the audience tries to verify, that your statement was true. If people burn your hand at that time extra carefully and realize a discrepancy - it's definitely the performers fault.

You should never make a statement, that you can't prove and you should never draw attention to the move itself.
Melephin
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In addition: If you perform a worked out routine, the moves "disappear" in the routine. The audience sees the routine as a whole piece and not the moves....
magicfish
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2019, Melephin wrote:
I agree 100% with Harry Lorayne. It is always the performer.

Speaking of the flustration count: that move is great and works perfectly if the timing is right and if you didn't bring it to peoples attention, to burn your hands extra carefully. I have seen magicians they go like: "Look, I have 10 Ace of Spades." Then they do the flustration count. At that point, the audience tries to verify, that your statement was true. If people burn your hand at that time extra carefully and realize a discrepancy - it's definitely the performers fault.

You should never make a statement, that you can't prove and you should never draw attention to the move itself.

Magic 101
lord_wallmotto
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Most people's classic pass.

What most people do should be called "the classic earthquake" because that's how obvious it is that something is happening in 99% of the cases. I have seen many "top pros" use the classic pass and only like 00.02% of them really had mastered it.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Another vote for the flushstration count. First time I saw it I just thought “why does he keep showing the bottom card?” and didn’t realize he was attempting to show them as different. So I’ve always assumed that plenty of other will perceive it the same way, whether or not they say anything.
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Leo-Kim
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Wayne dobson did a hilarious version of equivoke where the audience cerater a card piece b piece (red or black? Red, ok let’s eliminationen the red cards etc} and when hus prediction is showen it reads ”this trick sucks”

That’s not to say that equivoke can’t be a devastating weapon - just ask Max Maven...

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Leo-Kim
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Yay! I’ve got 333 posts!
Oh... rats! Now it’s 334...
Oh well...

Mikael Johansson
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The Burnaby Kid
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Not to worry. I'm going to use my magic powers to revert it back to 333. You're welcome!

And then I'm going to use them to double it and leave it that way permanently. You're welcome!
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danaruns
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I'm not a great card technician. My card skills are mediocre at best. But I've done the Mexican turnover for years in a Three Card Monte, and have not once been busted on it. I've used the flustration count, and even super obvious stuff like a riffle force or even a Hindu force, and people do not see it. So I disagree with your assessment of those sleights.

I also have a bad classic pass, but I get away with that too. The whole thing depends on context and what else you are doing at the same time. Subtle misdirection -- also known as performance skills -- covers a multitude of sins. Johnny Ace Palmer tells a bad joke while he does a pass. He even says, "That's a terrible joke, but it covers a pass," and he still gets away with it. Hannibal repeatedly sticks a card on the table right under the spectator's nose over and over, in plain sight, and the audience never sees it, because he directs their attention elsewhere. And each time he repeats it, he gets a bigger and bigger reaction. Magic is replete with performers who make the most obvious things work to stunning effect.

A sleight is maybe 10% of the trick. 90% is performance. Maybe you'd feel differently about those sleights if you watched good performers live, rather than looking at YouTube videos, which IMHO are inherently bad. It's a bad format, and they are usually done by bad performers.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
diamondjack
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I've never seen a preformer do a good mexican turnover, flustration count, or shapeshifter change. Can you point to any videos of these? Also, a pass is not the same kind of sleight that the others I mentioned are. A pass is done ( or should be done} without the audience burning the cards. Misdirection can't be used for the other sleights because attension is being directed at the cards when you're doing them.
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2019, diamondjack wrote:
I've never seen a preformer do a good mexican turnover, flustration count, or shapeshifter change.


It's a shame the smiling mule blog hasn't been up for a while. He had a killer Mexican Turnover. Very fluid.

The flustration count is best used in concert with another supporting idea. It's not great for proof on its own.

The shapeshifter change suffers a lot of the time because the changed card is often shown right next to the deck, which gives it a point of reference when it comes to its orientation. Three ideas that really help. First, do it away from the deck, and pick it up and set it down so that card remains somewhat aligned with the deck (it'll be your fingers that are reoriented). Second, do it as an "In Lieu Of The Through The Fist" Marlo-style move (Sankey does this all the time). Third, don't neglect to surround it with more mystery, either by having the spectator shuffle the cards or by having shown their selection right in the middle and then secretly getting it to the top (such as via a pass, not a shuffle).
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Ado
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At Magic Live a few years ago, I spent a night jamming with Bebel. His Mexican turnover works. There's no doubt about it. It's as good as it gets. However he's got the whole choreography around it. Which makes it *better*. You can't see it. It doesn't take a lot of misdirection or what not. If you're looking even 2 inches away from the card that flips, you won't see anything. Pros, real pros, find ways to shut your brain off when the move happens. You won't find how in books or DVDs. You'll have to dissect what the masters (the real ones) do. No one will teach you those secrets, because it's worth too much money.

P!
ddyment
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Some of the pros will teach some of their secrets. Both Giobbi and Tamariz have published different ways of ensuring that the Mexican Turnover is as invisible as it should be.
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lynnef
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Quote:
On Mar 15, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
The Mexican Turnover is used by some street-hustlers in Three Card Monte. It would be physically dangerous is it didn't fool everyone...


Quite true...a magician could catch the Mexican turnover; but ALL people (except stooges) who place bets are fooled or there are consequences. As for the flushtrashion move: even if you don't like it, in performing Jumping Gemini, it's part of the overall effect as well as a move to displace the cards for the finale. Sooo... back to Mr Lorayne's post, you have to get the performance (patter, timing, misdirection, and overall entertainment) down pat. Great topic folks. Lynn
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