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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Sleights that wont fool anyone (26 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 22, 2019, Melephin wrote:
Speaking of the flustration count: that move is great and works perfectly if the timing is right and if you didn't bring it to peoples attention, to burn your hands extra carefully.


Unless you choreograph the Flushtration Count so that the spectators are looking away from the cards every single time you thumb the top card into the taking hand, then it’s not a guaranteed move. It can’t be. It relies on a discrepancy.

I agree that attitude, timing, gaze management, context, and a dozen more presentational factors are critical to the move’s success. But it’s silly to argue that they make the move totally bulletproof.

One more time for the cheap seats: If the spectator sees the take of the top card, the move is subject to failure.
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 27, 2019, lynnef wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 15, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
The Mexican Turnover is used by some street-hustlers in Three Card Monte. It would be physically dangerous is it didn't fool everyone...


As for the flushtrashion move: even if you don't like it, in performing Jumping Gemini, it's part of the overall effect as well as a move to displace the cards for the finale.


Point of order: Just because a move offers convenience in handling doesn’t mean it’s a good or worthy move.
The Burnaby Kid
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Point of personal privilege: Oodles of green noodles make blue poodles jump der shtroodle.
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Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 27, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Point of personal privilege: Oodles of green noodles make blue poodles jump der shtroodle.


Hold on let me put that to a beat.
magicfish
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The idea that every sleight within an effect must be 'best in its class' is a fallacy and can make for artistic mud. I believe it is a philosophy given rise by the youtube generation who view all card magic through a lens and perform to a lense whereby every move must be "bullet proof".
This is a horrible way of thinking.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
The magic must bewilder. It is a piece of performance art. Not a series of moves. Things should flow. Most sleights have a time and place. The expert knows where, how, and when to use them.
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
The idea that every sleight within an effect must be 'best in its class' is a fallacy


Where did I say that?

I simply pointed out the (seemingly self-evident) fact that a discrepancy cannot fool everyone and will not "work perfectly," as stated above.
EllisJames52
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On Mar 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
The idea that every sleight within an effect must be 'best in its class' is a fallacy


Where did I say that?

I simply pointed out the (seemingly self-evident) fact that a discrepancy cannot fool everyone and will not "work perfectly," as stated above.


Discrepancies can fool everyone. The performer needs the right attitude and the right misdirection. Audience's aren't cameras. They can't rewind, pause, or zoom in.
magicfish
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Bingo.
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 28, 2019, EllisJames52 wrote:
The performer needs the right attitude and the right misdirection.


As stated above, if you choreograph the Flushtration Count so that the spectator is looking away every single time the take happens -- thus eliminating the visual discrepancy -- then sure, it's foolproof.

This isn't rocket science.

Quote:
Audience's aren't cameras.


Correct. They're thinking adults with miraculous brains that are capable of interpreting millions of vanishingly minute bits of information. At the end of the day you're flashing the bottom card over and over. We can only do so much to hide that (let's be honest, boneheaded) fact.

Quote:
Discrepancies can fool everyone.


An incredible sentence that requires no further comment.
magicfish
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"An incredible sentence that requires no further comment."

I disagree. I feel it could use further comment as there may be some here who doubt it. Discrepancies can indeed fool everyone. And they do. Some make very good livings with them.
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
I feel it could use further comment as there may be some here who doubt it.


The floor is yours!
magicfish
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"At the end of the day you're flashing the bottom card over and over. We can only do so much to hide that"
Correct. And sometimes it doesn't need to be hidden at all.
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Some make very good livings with them.


This... isn't an argument?
Rupert Pupkin
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On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"At the end of the day you're flashing the bottom card over and over. We can only do so much to hide that"
Correct. And sometimes it doesn't need to be hidden at all.


Like when?
magicfish
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On Mar 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Some make very good livings with them.


This... isn't an argument?

I'm not sure what you mean?
Rachmaninov
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Ellisjames52, your post goes right into my notes…thanks…
jason ladanye
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I'm only here for the comments...

::eats popcorn::
magicfish
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Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"At the end of the day you're flashing the bottom card over and over. We can only do so much to hide that"
Correct. And sometimes it doesn't need to be hidden at all.


Like when?

Like when the audience believes you have a packet of identical cards.
See Ortiz' writings about conviction.
The flushtration count casually, subtly, shows them what they already know. You're almost doing them a favour by giving them a final glimpse.
Take Williamson's genius action of moving a coin around his upturned palm with his opposing thumb. If he used it to say "look, there is a coin in my hand" it wouldn't fly.
But that is the case. When we see him pretend to move the coin we believe it because we just saw it go in there. We are already convinced there is a coin there so his subtle repositioning is psychological bamboozlement- not unlike the flushtration count.
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"At the end of the day you're flashing the bottom card over and over. We can only do so much to hide that"
Correct. And sometimes it doesn't need to be hidden at all.


Like when?

Like when the audience believes you have a packet of identical cards.
See Ortiz' writings about conviction.
The flushtration count casually, subtly, shows them what they already know. You're almost doing them a favour by giving them a final glimpse.
Take Williamson's genius action of moving a coin around his upturned palm with his opposing thumb. If he used it to say "look, there is a coin in my hand" it wouldn't fly.
But that is the case. When we see him pretend to move the coin we believe it because we just saw it go in there. We are already convinced there is a coin there so his subtle repositioning is psychological bamboozlement- not unlike the flushtration count.


None of that makes the discrepancy go away. It only works to reinforce its deceptiveness.
magicfish
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Who said anything about making the discrepancy go away?
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