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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Buying DVDs by Mistake (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Micheal Leath
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No he would not be poorer but there are now 2 copies of the DVD and he only got paid for one. How would you like for people to makes copies of something you worked hard on and cause there to be many more copies out there than you would like for there to be?

P.S. No Problem Smile
Nathan Pain
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No, he produced 1 dvd, got paid for 1 dvd. No money taken because whether I copied or didn't copy a dvd, I sold it for a reason and will never buy it again. And Glenn would have spent no money to produce the copy that I made, so once again no money lost. Check!

Nathan Pain

p.s. sorry Glenn for continually using your name, but you were my original example and someone else on the board bagged on me for using pronouns, Mr. Townsend, I believe, thank you for the wake up call!
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Micheal Leath
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No money lost, but he was not compensated for his material that he worked hard on.
Nathan Pain
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"How would you like for people to makes copies of something you worked hard on and cause there to be many more copies out there than you would like for there to be?"

Well, me personally, I would like to have anything I do spread all around the world, whether I make money at it or not...I'll take fame over fortune! Just call me Robin Hood. But that really is a personal issue amongst all us types! If you feel good selling a magic dvd for 50 bucks that cost four to produce than that is your prerogative...I know the thought is worth money, but honestly, if you're that worried keep it to yourself.

Nathan Pain
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Micheal Leath
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The DVD may have only cost 4 bucks but the effort and material contained within is worth far more (most the time).
Nathan Pain
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"No money lost, but he was not compensated for his material that he worked hard on."

Yes he was because I paid for his dvd originally, and it is my right to sell product that belongs to me!

Nathan Pain
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Micheal Leath
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But now two people have that material and only one paid him for it.

I have to go now because my head is starting to hurt....LOL
Nathan Pain
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No, 2 people paid for it...see above.

NP
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Micheal Leath
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Unless I'm missing something here, they both didn't pay the creator. You are right, you do have the right to sell it as long as you do not keep or sell a bootleg copy of it.
Nathan Pain
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I tried to edit but you blocked me mike

Also look at my book example, and hope Harry erases his brain, ya know, just so he's legal!

NP
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Micheal Leath
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Well, it has been fun. Smile
Nathan Pain
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Indeed!

Np
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Julie
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Ok, guys--the final truth is that if it FEELS wrong, IT'S WRONG! (That little tenney-tiny magical voice inside you is the real judge of whether to copy or not to copy.) Smile
Rob Johnston
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Quote:
On 2004-05-20 12:55, bishthemagish wrote:
Quote:
On 2004-05-20 12:12, nathanpain wrote:
No...you miss my point...I know it is illegal to copy dvd's, probably even for backup...the end result of my situation...I buy a dvd from you for 50 bucks, and then I sell it to joe schmo for 25 bucks. You got your 50 bucks and are a happy man, joe schmo got a good dvd for 25 bucks because he was not willing to spend 50 bucks to get it from you. Nathan Pain




I think the point you bring up is what keeps e-bay in business. I do not think that there is a law that says that you can't re-sell a product that you purchaced after you grow tired of it.

The sticky part would be to make a copy and then sell the origianl. Of cours everyone in here knows this.... It could happen and may have happenned.

If it were done often - I think that would fit into that the government would call blackmarket or bootleg marketing.

I would not think that that would be a good idea.




This is what I was going to say.

If I have something I no longer use, I might as well get rid of it for something I DO use. I don't copy it, I just sell it or trade it.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Nathan Pain
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Also, something else I thought of, who is stupid enough to buy a 50$ magic dvd, just to make a copy and sell it for a fraction of the price? I just ask this because a lot of you seem to be accusing this unnamed magician of doing this.

Nathan Pain
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Ron Reid
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Hi Nathan:

Very interesting points - I DO understand your questioning the difference between 1)just reselling a DVD and 2)making a copy for yourself before reselling it. It's a very fine line which I never really thought about. I see your point. Hmmm.

I guess since we have laws that say you can't do it, it's not worth discussing too much unless you have no respect for the law or you're trying to change it. Don't think that will happen in my lifetime.

Concerning why people do it: You can buy a $50 DVD and make a copy and sell it for $25. You don't have the packaging anymore, but you now have the performer's material for a net $25 instead of $50. That's why people do it.

Whenever I see someone selling a DVD because they "bought two by accident", I assume they're into the illegal act of copying.

Ron
Blitzen
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Making a copy of a DVD or tape is making an unlicensed copy and is copyright infringement. I've never heard of a copyright owner caring about it as long as it was really for personal use. I've had a couple CDs get scratched and some tapes that have been eaten by the VCR. There also is a very strong fair use arguement that would probably win out if any copyright holder got really worked up about someone making a personal use backup.
There is nothing legally wrong with selling the exact individual copy of a copyrighted (or patented) work that was purchased. Imagine how boring garage sales would be without that right!
Copying and then selling (trading, whatever) the original is different. In that case there is an economic gain in making the copy so fair use would probably not apply.
Magical ethics differs from the law here. What you're getting from a DVD is some secret knowledge and the actual copyrighted work is secondary to the knowledge. Generally I think it's fine that if you buy a DVD that you watched, but really didn't gain anything from, or that you gained such a small amount of knowledge compared as to what was advertised, that it's ok to resell it. If it's something you really get use out of it then you should keep the original. I'm sure we've all purchased something that sounded really good only to find out that it's not something we'd ever use; that something, I think, can be ethically resold, even if some secret knowledge was gained but never used.
Nathan Pain
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The line blurs to me because when I watch something I remember it forever, (well don't hold me to this, I'm only 30, when I'm 80 I'll try and get this post edited if any change occurs). If I sell it, the material is still in my brain. I don't need the dvd copy to remember the material. It all seems the same, barring the fbi and greasy lawyers. What is the code of conduct for erasing memories of sold or traded dvd's. And I'm being very serious here. I'm not trying to stir the proverbial !@#$%^&*()(

Nathan Pain

p.s. Ron I was just being hypothetical, I know why people do it, but 25$ for a dvd copy and no artwork...that is very stupid.

p.s.s. once again I do not condone copying and selling dvd's...just making conversation Smile

p.s.s.s. I still understand all the legal reasons not to do it, I just can't stand the "You're taking food out of my baby's mouth!" argument that always comes up in this type of discussion. I mean across the board, not just magic dvd's!
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p.b.jones
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Quote:
The line blurs to me because when I watch something I remember it forever, (well don't hold me to this, I'm only 30, when I'm 80 I'll try and get this post edited if any change occurs). If I sell it, the material is still in my brain. I don't need the dvd copy to remember the material

HI,
Yes I too can remember things like this however,you do forget the details the fine finesses ext, I know because I will often think oh yes I saw that in such a book. then when I get the book out I ALWAYS find that there is much more detail and depth to the thing than I could ever have remembered. the very fact that these people are copying and selling on the DVDs probably means that they have a huge collection as they are getting the DVD for very little (here in the UK £25.00 new probably 16 - 18 second hand) so they are only paying about £7.00 or so for the DVD copy (if they are not making more copys for club members/friends)
Phillip
Samuel Catoe
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Copying videos, cds, dvds etc. IS illegal in the US unless the program being copied is public domain. This includes personal backups. That is the nature of Copyright.
All this means is that you may not copy this video, cd, dvd, whatever without violating the law and taking your chances that you won't get caught or be turned in. The penalty for small timers is usually just a fine between $10,000-$50,000 per copy. Individuals found in possession of large numbers of illegally copied materials may be jailed.
If you purchase a tape and make notes, remember the tricks you like, or whatever and then sell it; you have not violated the law. Ethics maybe but not the law. If you copy the tape with your second vcr you have broken the law. If you sell the copy, you can now also be held responsible by the owner of the copyright in a civil suit in addition to your potential problems with law enforcement officials.
All ethics aside, if you sell a copy as the original you are also committing an act of Fraud. By mailing the illegal tape you are now guilty of Mail Fraud, Copyright violation, and Selling goods under false pretense. One of these is a federal offense (guess which one). This applies to any and ALL copyrighted materials. If you just don't like the material and want to sell it, go ahead. If you like the stuff but want to regain some of your investment by selling the material after you have taken numerous notes on what you liked and want to keep, that is not illegal (unethical but not illegal). If you want to keep the material and xerox off a copy to sell, I'll see you soon.

Sgt. Catoe, South Carolina Department of Corrections
Author of Illusions of Influence, a treatise on Equivoque.
PM me for details and availability.
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