The Magic Cafť
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ How to create an irresistable magic offer (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
One fundamental rule in all business is that you should never use price to differentiate yourself from your competitors. If you canít be the cheapest magician in town, thereís no point in being the second cheapest. Also, you donít ever want to be the cheapest magician in town. Itís the worst way of doing business.

So, where does that leave you?

How do you attract clients without lowering your prices?

Think about this for example. If you want to buy a magic trick, like Card-toon by Dan Harlan, you probably go to your favorite magic dealer and look at the price. Letís say it costs $12. You could, of course, search other dealers and perhaps get it for $10, or less.

But what if I told you that I could sell you Card-toon for $35, and you would be happy to buy from me (note, Iím not selling this, itís just an example).

How could this be possible?

Well, instead of lowering the price, Iím going to increase the value.

When you buy Card-toon from me, I will also give you 5 complete routines with scripts (20$ value), a recorded interview with Dan Harlan where he shares 5 secrets about the trick ($20 value ), 30 minutes of additional video training ($15 value) and personal support from me, should you need help with the trick ($45 value). The total value of my offer is $100. What would that be worth to you? Does $35 sound too bad now?

Do you see how you could change a product into an offer simply by adding more value?

You can do the same thing with your magic business. Instead of selling a product (be it mingle magic, a kids party show, etc.) you should sell an offer.

Try to bundle as much value as possible into your offer and present it to your potential clients.

Some of you might think that you should charge extra for this. But thatís the beauty of it allÖyou ARE charging extra, youíre just not presenting it like that.

You DONíT tell your client that you can personalize the trick for the birthday boy, for an extra $25, you simply bundle that value into your total offer, and charge accordingly.

When people feel theyíre getting more value than what they have to pay, price becomes irrelevant.

Your thoughts on this?
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Sounds too much like late night infomercial to me. Maybe it is effective, but I would never associate myself or my business that way.

It also assumes people are dumb enough to fall for it. I don't like that feel. Too much used car salesman in it for me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
View Profile
Inner circle
1948 Posts

Profile of charliecheckers
The key to getting an asking fee is to be worth it, in terms of perceived quality and uniqness.

I the OPís example, there is significant time and cost risk in producing all the add onís without knowing if there is a market for it. Itís not enough to just create what you believe to be valuable, put your price worth on it and then believe it leads to high volume sales. There is a reason CardToon sells at the low price point that it does. I realize this was just one example, but the point is that the creation of value needs to be part of a larger business model discussion. There are ton of successful entertainers who have a basic selling model and changing it could damage sales due to their current business model. Changing one aspect, without reconstructing their business model throws the whole thing off. Itís like Walmart transitioning to a boutique style store to increase their profit margin. How crazy would that seem?
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
It also assumes people are dumb enough to fall for it. I don't like that feel. Too much used car salesman in it for me.


It has nothing to do with people being smart or dumb, it's about how we perceive things as humans.

Quote:
On Apr 2, 2019, charliecheckers wrote:
The key to getting an asking fee is to be worth it, in terms of perceived quality and uniqness.


Yes, exactly!

Quote:
Itís like Walmart transitioning to a boutique style store to increase their profit margin. How crazy would that seem?


But Walmart is heavily focused on price, that's their thing. They buy in bulk and cut prices. If you have a store, you can't compete with that. Then it could make sense to change your business model since you cannot be cheaper than Walmart.

If anyone wants their business model to be focused on price alone, that's fine. I just think there's a better way.

Let's say you're a parent looking for a magician for your child's birthday. You ask two magicians for a quote.

Magician A will provide a 40-minute magic show for kids for $50
Magician B will provide a 20-minute show for kids, then make balloon animals for the children and finally, as a finale, do a special trick with the birthday boy. All this for $80. Total time 40 minutes.

Which magician do you think the parent will hire (note: I have no clue on the actual rates for a birthday magician in the US...think of this as an example)?
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Yea maybe this will work for birthday parties. I have no idea.

But I said it is about how you are perceived as a person. I do not want to be perceived the way this silly idea would result in. Again too much late night infomercial and used car salesman like.

NOTHING wrong with either of those things. I just don't want to seem like either one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
But I said it is about how you are perceived as a person. I do not want to be perceived the way this silly idea would result in.


And that's the beauty of free speech and good forums...we don't have to agree on everything...but we can still have a constructive conversation about it.
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
No doubt.

I am not a fan of affiliate programs. I am not a fan of so much of the "guru" stuff out there. Others are and that is just as valid a position to take. What one thinks works, another will simply dislike.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
View Profile
Inner circle
1948 Posts

Profile of charliecheckers
I think it is good to consider various business models and ways to offer value. For me, I see the real opportunity being tied to offering a better base product in the markets where I compete. That means offering talent and a unique performance. In reality, anyone can add balloon animals, gifts for children, or specific upsellll props, so doing so only gets you so far and can actually detract from the perceived value in certain cases. Getting the client to hire you for your reputation lands you further ahead than any bundling strategy. That doesnít mean one should not consider the broader offering potential, beyond the performance, it only means everything should be considered from a branding and image perspective - not just simply trying to ďadd valueĒ.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Charlie EXACTLY. ANYONE can add value just by adding things others can add like balloon animals and such. All it does is give you more things to be compared to that others do exactly the same. It does nothing to make one stand out as a reason they should be hired as opposed to another.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9324 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Lol, like Dany said it sounds like a late night infomercial. But wait, there's more!.... And if you book right away, you'll also get....
Act now and receive our Special Bonus Offer - get a second additional one and you only pay for shipping!

That's two performances, plus balloon animals, plus a half hour of close-up magic all for the low price of $XXX, and we'll even let you pay with our Extended Payment Plan - that's right, only $9.97 a month for 60 months, and best of all - No Credit Needed, Now Money Down.

For only $9.95 a month you can give your kids memories of a lifetime! Act Now!

(And next year you can do it for your other kid too!)
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9324 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I think Charliechecker's makes a great point about "just trying to add value." There are different types of value and your real value should align with your business model, positioning, and branding.
Donald Dunphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
7367 Posts

Profile of Donald Dunphy
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2019, AndreJ wrote:

Well, instead of lowering the price, Iím going to increase the value.

When you buy Card-toon from me, I will also give you 5 complete routines with scripts (20$ value), a recorded interview with Dan Harlan where he shares 5 secrets about the trick ($20 value ), 30 minutes of additional video training ($15 value) and personal support from me, should you need help with the trick ($45 value). The total value of my offer is $100. What would that be worth to you? Does $35 sound too bad now?


and

Quote:
Let's say you're a parent looking for a magician for your child's birthday. You ask two magicians for a quote.

Magician A will provide a 40-minute magic show for kids for $50
Magician B will provide a 20-minute show for kids, then make balloon animals for the children and finally, as a finale, do a special trick with the birthday boy. All this for $80. Total time 40 minutes.


I've seen this in advertising copy before. I have multiple show packages on my website, but I never break down the "value" of certain components.

Three problems that I see with this approach are:

1) You give a valuation to certain items / services that is not the same valuation that the customer sees.

2) You offer to include add-ons / services that the customer doesn't really want included when buying from you.

3) When you put value on certain items / services, by breaking them down into components, people ask if they can just buy certain components rather than the full package.

For example (for 3), no, I'm not interested in doing ONLY 10-15 minutes of balloons at your child's birthday party for $50, even though birthday option #1 is a 30-minute magic show for $200, and birthday option #2 is a 30-minute magic show followed by 10-15 minutes of balloons for $250.

My minimum fee for an hour of balloon twisting (or portion of an hour) is $200. I ended up putting that somewhere on my site because I was tired of people asking me to do 15-30 minutes of balloons at a child's birthday party, because they thought they could get it for lower than my magic show fee. I also solved this by including balloon twisting of some sort in all of my birthday show packages.

(BTW, I get non-birthday customers who hire me for an hour of balloon twisting, by itself or in addition to a magic show. But for birthday customers, I simply created show options that included some sort of balloon twisting, and that's usually for a shorter time frame because it's a smaller group size.)

One more thought - the solution to the debate of a customer choosing between Magician A and Magician B for their child's birthday, is to actually be Magician A offering options A, B, and C, so the customer has choices. And also being either the magician the child or parent wants (if the customer has seen or heard of you before), or providing enough proof / evidence of your quality and reliability (if the customer hasn't seen or heard of you before).

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9324 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Great points Donald. The thing with this is it doesn't really create a win-win situation. It may be a win for the performer of they take this "package", but it can also be the very thing that prevents someone form booking you.

To play devil's advocate here, it is not necessarily a win for the client. If they aren't interested in balloons or closeup or whatever you have "bundled" they may feel they are being steered away from what they actually wanted and pushed to take things they really didn't feel they wanted or needed.

To this type of a client, an ala carte list of services may be more applicable. Yes, you should let them know of your additional services and their availability but they may be more interested and satisfied if they can pick and choose what they want to kind of create their own "bundle." This would be a quite easy sell, and they may feel it much more of a win and more to their choices/interests, while not devaluing your services individually.

Still you must be care not to devalue each of the items, which is always the concern with "bundles."

A happy, satisfed customer should always be your #1 priority. That will result in mor eadditional profits than forced packages.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
How many have been frustrated by chain restaurants that won't let you have salad instead of soup? They "bundled " it one way and that is the deal.

I think it is an idea that may work for some but is very problematic.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9324 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I know this will likely be taken the wrong way but I am not sure kids performers always truly understand the needs of these clients and what they truly want. They more or less operate from "this is what I offer" or "this is what you need," which is something that always can only be minimally effective.

For example, talk to many kids performers on what the top concern of parents planning their kid's party is and they will tell you it is usually price. This is actually incorrect, yet since its what many kids party magicians believe it becomes the position they operate from, correct or not. I think this "bundling" happens much in the same way.

The very same thing happened to me on Monday as Danny mentioned. I ordered breakfast in a restaurant but asked if I could have a pancake in stread or toast or muffin. They said no they couldn't substitute it. I asked why not and they explained because pancakes are more expensive than the toast or muffin. She said I can get you a short stack side for a small extra charge. I decided I wasn't interested but asked what that charge was. She said $6! So not only did she talk me out of it, but she ended up with a dissatisfied customer. It could have cost them my business, her a better tip, and most of all an unsatisfied customer (I should say I am also a regular there - very regular. I probably spend $200-$300 a year there and they can't substitute a single pancake (all I asked for)? Again, is this really good business?

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well. I think the topic of this thread closely applies under this topic as well.
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
Quote:
On Apr 4, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well.


It might be that my english is a little off, but that is the essence of my post. There are many ways to make the client experience better (lowering the price could be one) and my point is that when you find the clients pain points, and becomes the solution to them, price doesn't matter.

That's why a bundle could be more effective since you solve multiple problems for your client. It's NOT about selling stuff they don't want or need.
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9324 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2019, AndreJ wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 4, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well.


It might be that my english is a little off, but that is the essence of my post. There are many ways to make the client experience better (lowering the price could be one) and my point is that when you find the clients pain points, and becomes the solution to them, price doesn't matter.

That's why a bundle could be more effective since you solve multiple problems for your client. It's NOT about selling stuff they don't want or need.


I understand and appreciate your perspectives but, it comes off as a lot of today's "guru speak." One of the big guru things is "to find your prospects pain points - solve these problems and walla, you are their magical (forgive the pun) solution man/provider." While there is something to this to a point, most people take this grossly out of context. In operating this way, they are always looking for some negativity (pain points) from which to base their approach, and operating from this position.

What I am saying is it is better to have them want you because of you and what you offer and your true value, not to address their negative elements. A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.

I closed my therapy practice many years ago for just this exact reason. I don't want to deal with people who are focusing on their pain, problems or negativity. Sure, I could help them and I did, but it just wasn't what I wanted for my business foundation.

You can be their best, and in many cases, their real only choice in many other ways than operating from the pain point position.

The Customer Experience must be THEIR experience, not the experience you wish to put upon them. By bundling like you are discussing that is what is often occurring.

This is also what happens when entertainers follow this online marketing guru approach, perspective, and operation. We have seen many performers get nowhere quickly with this approach. That may be fine for schlepping marketing courses to unknowing wanna-bees, but that is not how entertainment is best offered or operated. Entertainment is based on wants and experiences. If you really want to serve your prospects and clients it is much better to operate from an entertainment-based foundation and position.
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.


I never said you should focus on the pain points in your marketing or approach, just that you as a magician is a service provider and, like every other service provider, your job is to solve problems. Problems the clients may or may not know they have.

It might sound like "guru" talk, but one need to see the difference between tried and tested methods and "the latest shiny thing".
Solving real world "problems" for real world clients is, in my opinion, the bread and butter for most magicians and is in no way "guru talk".

I think many performers focus on their selves instead of focusing on the client. If you can both give your client a good experience and at the same time make more money...I don't see any problems with that.
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19526 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2019, AndreJ wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.


Solving real world "problems" for real world clients is, in my opinion, the bread and butter for most magicians and is in no way "guru talk".


See I think it is the PROBLEM most magicians have. And it most certainly IS "guru talk". It is buzz word speak.

The bread and butter of most magicians SHOULD be doing a magic show. You can guru wrap it however you like but it is a problem most magicians CAUSE for THEMSELVES.

Your job is NOT to solve a problem they don't know they have. My lord how self centered is this approach? Your job is to do a show. I know the guru crowd want to sell as much as possible, and want to look like they are the one stop shop for answers. You invent problems for you to solve and yada yada yada. It is silly. Do a great show, do it at a price they can afford and understand and move on. Keep it simple.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
AndreJ
View Profile
New user
Sweden/@andrewestberg
90 Posts

Profile of AndreJ
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:

The bread and butter of most magicians SHOULD be doing a magic show. You can guru wrap it however you like but it is a problem most magicians CAUSE for THEMSELVES.


But WHY are you doing that magic show?
Want more leads to your magic business? Get a free Lead Generation System at www.gigfunnels.com

Get honest reviews of magic and mentalism at www.gigfunnels.com/reviews/

My background: Loved magic for 25 years, always wanted to do paid gigs but never had the courage. Faced my fears some years ago and now perform regularly. Would love to help you get there too!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ How to create an irresistable magic offer (7 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL