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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » AbraKadabra or AbraCadabra (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jcss
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Greetings to all the colleagues of the forum.
Today a great doubt arose and although I searched a lot of information on the internet I have no clear doubt.
How do you write the most used magic word in the world?
AbraCadabra or AbraKadabra?
What would the original word be?
I thank you very much for your answers.
Regards
funsway
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Years ago there was an article on this in MUM with input from all over the world. Maybe you can find it. My volume is packed away.

The answer is that neither is correct - or both as they are but manglings of an ancient Turkic phrase. --

something like "aburabaractur" used by Safik during the Ottoman Empire control. It sounded good so magicians picked it up.

Spell it any way you wish - how you present it is everything. It translates as "making something from nothing" - can't remember exactly.

I disagree that this is the most used magic word. The Western world used to use it frequently.
The rest of the world uses something else.

Consider that this very day China has more practicing magicians than have ever existed in the USA.
Doubt they have ever heard the word by any spelling.

There are some interesting diagrams of shapes made with this word.

Maybe the problem is Internet search filled more with ads than information.

Adabadaddada
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tommy
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Abracadabra

magical formula, 1690s, from Latin (Q. Serenus Sammonicus, 2c.), from Late Greek Abraxas, cabalistic or gnostic name for the supreme god, and thus a word of power. It was written out in a triangle shape and worn around the neck to ward off sickness, etc. Another magical word, from a mid-15c. writing, was ananizapta.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/abracadabra#etymonline_v_65
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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Yup, someone took an 8,000 year old Turkic phrase and wrote it in book in 1690 about what someone in the second century might have said.

Therefore that explanation must be true. Check the MUM article for other "right answers," then choose the ones that suits.

This as as bad a claiming Fibonacci invented knowledge of Phi that had been acclaimed for many thousands of years.
but, put it in a movie and and most now think Phi is a part of the Fibonacci series instead of the other way around.

But, this does provide evidence as to the spelling of the modern phrase - good thoughts tommy.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tommy
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Was it the as as who said: "Magic presents by far the most personal relationship with the divine possible.”?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Jonathan Townsend
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Where can I read more about this history? I was under the impression the Ottoman empire formed around the 11th century CE and was in power until the Turkey declared itself a modern nation in 1923. Again what little history I've learned has the Turkic languages also dating back around the 11th century CE.

Where can I read more about the 8,000 year history?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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Nowhere:

The earliest linguistic records are Old Turkic inscriptions, found near the Orhon River in Mongolia and the Yenisey River valley in south-central Russia, which date from the 8th century CE.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Turkic-languages
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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funsway
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For both Jonathan and Tommy. Try talking to Turkish scholars about their history. It did not start with the Ottoman Empire.

There are references to the Turkic peoples in the XIa Dynasty of China (2070 BCE) as ancient tribes.

The migration of the Turkic peoples and the unique integrity of their language is a fascinating story.
For example, the work "adam" means "human" in Turkish - borrowed by the infant Israelite cultures.

Perhaps you confuse "written" with "history." "Turkic inscription" has little relevance to actual history, except for those who think life started with the written word.
Please do not confuse the history of modern Turkey with the history of the Turkic peoples.
Yes, your browser might confuse the two and bring up wrong articles. Try harder. Life did not begin with Google either.

Amazingly, if a modern Turk should be transported back to a Caravanserai 6,000 years ago they could converse.

I was a Turkish linguist by grace of the military back in 1968. My instructors had many stories to tell to offset modern myopia.
I have been an interested student ever since. In 1993-95 when one could post Internet ideas on the Internet boards , I reached out to explore Turkish myth. legend and hype.

Of interest was the separation of performance magic from ceremonial magic by law and tradition.
Soldiers could do a form of C&B with conical spear point guards that a priest was not allowed to do.

But, back to the them of this thread, the spelling of the phrase and its origin.

I think we can agree that most modern spellings favor the "c" over the "k"

The origin for modern magicians is found in the appeal of the words as a chant - not in any fact.
Any truth as to derivation is meaningless compared with this practical use.

If I use the chant the spectator may conjure up an image of ancient arts - that is all that matters.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tommy
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When I was in Turkey I had an abracadabra kebab.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicfish
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Quote:
On May 26, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Where can I read more about this history? I was under the impression the Ottoman empire formed around the 11th century CE and was in power until the Turkey declared itself a modern nation in 1923. Again what little history I've learned has the Turkic languages also dating back around the 11th century CE.

Where can I read more about the 8,000 year history?

I think you mean A.D.
Jonathan Townsend
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The Muslim peoples there might prefer AH to AD. I was going for neutral ground on the matter.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
funsway
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
The Muslim peoples there might prefer AH to AD. I was going for neutral ground on the matter.


Muslims revere Christ as a prophet and have been a greater protector of Christian historic sites than Medieval Christians were.

The modern Turks count dates as we do.

Of some interest, when I studied Turkish in 1967-68 only about 60% of Turkey's population was Muslim with about 25% Christian
with a mixture including Tangrists, Zorathustrans and Hindi. In reality, a majority practiced no religion seriously, giving lip service
to the "silent breeze" of the day.

Today, Muslims claim 98% followers, but only because a 2002 law makes anyone undecided or unproclaimed Muslim,
and no registration is allowed other than Muslim, Christian or Jewish. Conversion by computer, I guess.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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bluejay17!
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Why does anyone say abracadabra? It seems... childish
bluejay17!
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Not to be offensive, but I certainly can't pull that off.
funsway
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More strange to me is any concern over the spelling of this weird word when "its" or "it's" and "there, their and they're" are of no concern at all for most.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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