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Topcliffe Regular user New Orleans, LA 149 Posts |
Ok, what am I doing wrong here? I have everything the directions call for (including the one very specific thing) and I'm following the directions to the letter, and nothing. I mean as in absolutely nothing. What am I missing?
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
Too many possibilities to discuss here imo. Have you tried PMing Chris directly? He’s always been prompt and helpful
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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Christopher_Rawlins Special user North West, England. 518 Posts |
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On Jun 11, 2020, Topcliffe wrote: PM'd you, I'll make sure we work through this and get you up and running with TCDD. http://c-r-products.yolasite.com/Digital-Products.php
My Work - http://c-r-products.yolasite.com
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
I rest my case
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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Topcliffe Regular user New Orleans, LA 149 Posts |
I do appreciate Chris getting in touch with me and helping me troubleshoot the issues I've been having with the effect. However, I'm still not at all happy with the fact that such basic information isn't in an $85 book to begin with, especially as I've now spent close to an additional $50 on materials to get any sort of result, and I'm still not quite there yet. The thing though that really sticks in my craw is that when I suggested that such basic information should have been included in the book or at least given in a revised edition, his response was that all that information would be included in his upcoming book "Thoughts vol. 3". In other words, it will involve buying yet another book. That's just not right.
I'm copying below part of the last response I sent him via email: "I guess what I've been trying to say is that if you're going to charge $85 for a book that doesn't present a new impression technique so much as give an alternative handling of an already existing technique, the buyer has every reason to expect that the book will contain all the necessary information. As it is, when all's said and done, I've spent over $50 on additional materials just to get the effect to work in any way, and I'm still not 100% there; I have to get another set of cards and hope they work. A word about cardstock thickness and other types of pens that work isn't a lot to ask, nor is it a real solution to say that obtaining the correct and complete information will require spending money on yet another book. The right thing to do in this case would be to create a revised edition with all necessary information and offer it free of charge to people who have already purchased the book. It would also save you the time and hassle of having to troubleshoot in person with buyers." |
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stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
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On Jun 17, 2020, Topcliffe wrote: I also got zilch, emailed Chris and got a short "sorry, try another type of card" type response. Still not there yet as well. I agree with your comments 100%; all this should have been explicitly laid out in the ebook. |
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Topcliffe Regular user New Orleans, LA 149 Posts |
PS: Steam 2.0, of which TCDD is an alternative handling, costs $40 less and *comes complete with everything you need*! How can anyone justify charging $85 for a book outlining an alternative handling especially when that book doesn't contain all the necessary information? And even if it did, you're still going to be spending money on additional supplies. The more I think about it the more unhappy I am with the whole thing.
Steam 2.0: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/6717 |
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Christopher_Rawlins Special user North West, England. 518 Posts |
Hey MP,
I emailed this to you but, as you want to open this talk up, here is my reply... Like I mentioned in my last email when my printers/paper supplier is open I’ll double-check the GSM and let you know. Just with things as they are, they aren’t open. They print and cut and supply everything for me and have it all logged etc. So as soon as I can get you that information I will. (For everyone else reading - I explained that I have had a bulk of card billets cut for this and many other things I work with, and don't know the exact GSM, as it is only the card stock that is stopping the operation of MP's technique. Everything else is working, and I guess with blank card harder to access right now, MP is finding this frustrating. ) So I am sorry you are struggling with it. I've even offered to Skype with you to fix this. And like I said, we’ll get you there. Regarding the $50 you spent, they aren't useless. You’ll find a use for the envelopes with TCDD and the pens. And surely the blank cards too. And when I have time, I’ll get the revised write up to you personally. But for now, I have a number of other projects taking my time. I hope you can see I have been more than helpful and will continue to do so. C" To which I received a snappy email, so I replied saying the following "You sound angry and I feel like this would be a good time to end this communication. I tried to help and was willing to do further. Sorry, you feel that way. " I would just like to point out that I have tried to help MP, but I draw the line at being spoken to in such a tone. I shouldn't (nor should any creator) have to babysit someone through buying the correct card stock. I have sent numerous replies to MP, on here and email and I even offered to Skype him personally to resolve his issue. The only issue he has is that he doesn't have the correct card stock... A pre-warning, MP's emails are getting nasty, and I'm sure he will spend some of his day saying bad things here. TCDD is handling and method that I am very proud of. MP knew he was buying an ebook, and it very clearly describes the use of cards and envelopes. So I don't understand what he expected or why he is upset that he has spent little money on the required materials. After all of this being said, I am sorry he feels this way. And I wish him well. And I'll happily help him out IF he changes his attitude. Thanks so much, Christopher.
My Work - http://c-r-products.yolasite.com
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Topcliffe Regular user New Orleans, LA 149 Posts |
Ok, but the real question is: how is it worth $85 when Steam 2.0, which comes with all the materials, is $40 less? It's a fine handling, to be sure. But if you're charging that much for a book, why not just include a brief paragraph cautioning on the thickness of the stock, as well as the secret thing, which as we've discussed has different brand names in different countries, and which appears to have been re-branded to a different name, at least in the US? The book says you need one specific thing, but as it turns out there are several things that would work as well. This is all pretty standard stuff. When I suggested including this information in a revised edition, you got defensive and said the material would be in your new book. I guess I missed the part where you offered to send me that info for free, in which case I'm sorry, but this isn't just me here, it's everyone who buys TCDD. Will you be offering them the rest of the necessary information for free also, or was this a one-time offer because I complained? While I appreciate your offer of the rest of the info, it's not necessary now, is it, since the problem has been figured out? And while I appreciate your "babysitting" me through figuring out what information you'd omitted from your book, it's not like I wouldn't have figured it out anyway; as a matter of fact it was one of the first things I mentioned in my original email, to which your reply was basically "could be".
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Christopher_Rawlins Special user North West, England. 518 Posts |
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On Jun 17, 2020, Topcliffe wrote: Like I said to you personally on email, I'm sorry that you don't see the value in TCDD. Marc Salem, the creator of the method behind Steam does. Very much so. I am glad that with my help and patience you will arrive at a place where you can start using TCDD. I'm always happy to help anyone that reaches out to me, as and when I can. It's not my job or responsibility to be on stand by to anyone, I reply when I have time. What I haven't enjoyed here is that through trying to help you, I have received negativity. When the reality of the issue is that you became frustrated that you didn't obtain the correct stock immediately. I very clearly said I will check with my supplier and let you know, and that offer stands to anyone who would like to know, just email me. Be polite. Be respectful and I'll gladly help. It might not be right away, but I'll always help. I couldn't count the number of people on one hand that have had trouble any part of TCDD, but it usually always comes down to one simple thing, that everyone else has solved. I omitted nothing from TCDD, I just assumed that people would have simple access to the materials needed and would experiment themselves to find what works best in their part of the world. Regarding an updated write up...it will feature in a book that is way off in the distance, with other handlings too. I was not suggesting that you must buy that or not know. I was in fact suggesting and trying ways to help you, but then you became snappy, derogatory, and rude. Which isn't a style that suits anyone. Mariano Paniello this is where we part ways, but I truly do wish you all the best.
My Work - http://c-r-products.yolasite.com
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Topcliffe Regular user New Orleans, LA 149 Posts |
Dayum! Always a classy move, doxxing someone. Not that I care if anyone on the Café knows my real name (hi everyone!). And for the record, I didn't become frustrated with not having the right cardstock; it's actually been fun trying to narrow down the problem. I took exception to your bristling indignantly at the suggestion that the information you provided wasn't complete, especially for what you're charging. It's really as simple as that.
As a side note, it never seems to fail that whenever someone gets called on seemingly questionable behavior or practices, they will reflexively try to make the conversation about tone. |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
Tone matters though.
I can only speak for my personal experience and what I’ve witnessed over time with Chris. Always been super fast and friendly/helpful replies. Topcliffe you sound like a decent guy as well, just frustrated. (I get it, which is why I usually hate diy or sourcing materials) I felt a bit of a dilemma initially because of the price, and the workings. I already had Steam and could have adapted it and saved the money. Couldn’t do it though ethically. So I waited for a sale price I believed to be fair, and now I carry it with a clear conscience. It’s easy to look at this and think it’s a simple variation after the fact...but I never thought of it and doubt I would have. If we encourage and reward creators that put the time and effort in, they’ll most likely keep releasing stuff we use. (and make a living with) I’ve also learned the hard way to scrub these forums before making a purchase. Anyway, sorry for the rant. I hope the dust settles and you guys touch base again with cooler heads.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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