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magicmanx New user Working in Benidorm Spain 47 Posts |
I believe if you can't get the audience on your side when performing magic...you might as well not bother. I make it very clear right at the opening of my act..as I am tearing up my newspaper! That this is a very interactive show... so I will be inviting some of you to join me...BUT I am not the sort of magician to make fools of people...the only person that could be made to look a fool up here tonight is me !
And in all the shows I have done..I have NEVER had a problem in volunteers declining. As for the guillotine illusion...I carry on using it...as a comedy spot...and people take it for what it is.. a magic illusion that makes them laugh... perhaps if I did this seriously...I would have a rethink. |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Bob Jepsen did a hilarious routine with a Disecto and a hand puppet. Used it as head chopper.
It was not a great mystery but my gosh was it entertaining. I sure miss Bob!
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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MagicbyCarlo Inner circle has squandered his time making 1062 Posts |
Well, I have some thoughts on this:
I totally, and unwaveringly disagree with the premise that presenting a head chopper routine is insensitive, inconsiderate, or indiscrete! I DO think if one dressed up as a middle-eastern terrorist and made overtures to the current events that it would be not only insensitive, inconsiderate and indiscrete but is also tasteless. THIS type of presentation would be objectionable. I think the crux of the matter is HOW the Head chopper is presented, not THAT it IS presented. My heart goes out to the families of those who have lost a loved one due to the actions of these terrorists. I do think deleting my head chopper routine from my show would serve the same purpose as banning aircraft from the skies, or rental trucks from the streets because they might remind someone of the carnage of 9-11 or Okalahoma City. I don't feel that by walking on egg shells we do anything but feed into the mind-set these terrorists are trying to create. If you find head choppers are objectionable now, then they have ALWAYS been so, not just NOW. If you find them objectionable now you have simply been searching for an excuse to do so. That's fine everyone has to follow thier own moral compass. Some might find the misogyny of sawing, impaling, Modern Art or Zig Zag, objectionable. But if you think it's only about the tricks then you have missed the entire point of magic itself. Magic has ALWAYS represented the struggle of control over life and death. Robert E. Neale writes, in his book THE MAGIC MIRROR, "Magic is the performance exercise of imaginative mastery that grants symbolic power over life and death by means of ritual control over change in the artful play of impossible effect of being, doing and relating." Few effects better represent that definition of magic than the head chopper. As for audience selection, my assistant locates and preps them pre-show. This avoids any unnecessary issues. The presentation I use while comical, is not about the predicament of the helper but about the strength of good character making them impervious to the injustice administered by the self important character I play for the piece. At the end, I'm defeated and the "victim" triumphs, overpowering my character and death itself. Maybe I'm looking too deeply at this, but it's how I see it.
Carlo DeBlasio
<BR>Entertainment specialist <BR>and all around fun guy! |
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seanalexander Regular user UK 194 Posts |
I have to agree with the others that believe it should be left in the show. When people come to watch a show they forget about all that is happening around the world and enjoy seeing a live show. Again unless you are quoing the middle east, etc, etc I don't think that people will relate!
My heart also goes out to the families of the victims, especially the 2 Americans recently and I can't imagine how Ken Bigley's family must be feeling right now, lets all hope that he will be released and all this will end soon! |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
I think showing sensitivity to our global community is a valid concern. That's why I believe that entertainers should "consider" removing from our promo kits, the close-up image of a head about to be cut into with either a buzz saw or a guillotine blade.
Of course, in the end it's a personal decision. I also believe that there is nothing wrong with keeping the routine in the show as long as it is lighthearted, has comedic appeal and (does not offend the particular make-up of the audience or the setting(ie. wouldn't do it in a Mosque, synagogue, or in front of military groups, etc.). When I received a recent call from the head of a Baptist association, they expressed deep concern at seeing such an image on our web site. Thus, for the time being, have removed the buzz-saw/victim image from our site. We (you) never know who will visit your site and find genuine offense. I'd rather promote the fun and laughter of our show and although the way in which we present the buzz-saw routine evokes gales of fun and laughter (and not at the expense of the volunteer), until I can describe the effect in its context to the client, the client (or prospective client)will likely react subjectively, and I do not wish to offend. PS: a similar thread has been running at: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=7 All the best. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
There are at least two interesting discussions at work here, one the issue re: the situation in the middle east as it relates to performance choices; and two, the insensitivity of performers in general.
While it is bad form to jeopardize a performer, I once came close. A magician was perpetrating the bra trick (with sword through neck) on a 13 year old girl. The girl was clearly uncomfortable with her body, let alone the creepy situation in which she found herself. This magician humiliated her onstage. (In my opinion it was bordering on emotional assault).It took everything within me not to stand up and put a halt to it. Sadly our field attracts sociopaths of his ilk and I think it is something worth addressing. This disrespect for the audience often comes through in performances of the guillotine, so it is hard to talk about the middle east issue without the associations we have of insensitive performers and their misanthropic routines. But, in an attempt to do so, I will say that I believe the head chopper can still be presented and, if done so with forethought, the audience will never make the connection with the middle east. I have a bookshelf to asemble, perhaps later I will try to offer some specific ideas as to how it can be accomplished. Nevertheless, the dogmatic appeal to withdraw this trick for the literature is unfounded. |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
I agree with you 100%. I know this from expereicne and the positive feedback on my fun-filled comdey verion of the buzz-saw.
My interest lies more in the discussion about how the image of the buzz-saw or guillotine in a magician's promotional material may seriously offend, not the routine within the show itself, when handled by a thoughtful and yes, audience-sensitive performer. Any comments and perspectives on this would be most welcome.
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
What if you happen to have someone in the audience that has been personally effected by one of these tragic events? Do you think they will not be reminded of it even if you present a head chopper as a comedy routine? Do you think they would think it was funny?
Just some thoughts. Regan
Mister Mystery
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
I don't think living one's life with the sole goal of never offending anyone leads to work of artistic merit. (Likewise, the intent of offensiveness just to push buttons is equally hollow.)
To make one's mission to never offend is to insist that all art be of the ilk of the little kitty cat dangling from a tree, hanging in until Friday. Personally, I would rather see the works of Picasso, Pollock, or Mapplethorpe. But even with our kitty, I'm sure some cat lover whose feline died in a tragic car accident might become saddend. So, to take the arguement to the extreme, one can never risk not offending someone. So the question becomes, is what you are offering worth taking that risk? Well, a "magic show" for the local cub scout den may not be the place to fight this battle. But, if someone had an interesting, meaningful head chooper routine (ok, I know, that too may be a bit of a stretch) then I think it is their duty to share it with the world. If the vision is solid, then that vision will come through beyond any recent events. But, in the interest of tackling the interesting question, what if someone's head chopper routine WAS about terrorism, and the middle east? How interesting would that be?!? Magic about something meaningful! Magic about something current. Magic that people would talk about, argue about, and pay attention to! Those cub scouts are going to have one heck of a pack meeting! |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
I agree that the head chopper or buzz saw thru neck, if done in a way that engages and enthuses the audience, with the volunteer/"victim" ultimately triumphing at the end of the routine,should not be taken out of the the thoughtful magician's show. After all it is done to entertain and if that is the overall effect that it has on the whole of the audience , then it is successful and deserves to remain in the show.
But what about the promo image on the magician's web site, of a volunteer's head in a stockade waiting for it to be chopped off? Leave the image on for anyone, from any country, religion or background,to surf the net and happen upon it? Fine. Everyone (at least all adults) is/are ultimately responsible for themselves and as long as the image is not extremely gruesome, shocking and/or in your face, there is very little chance that any real psychological harm will impact upon the viewer (if it does, well, they can always "click off" the image. But what if that viewer is a potential prospect? Don't you risk having them react on a political, ethical level, without know ing the value of the trick in it's actual show presentation context? Do you keep the image on the site, or take it off (temporarily until these images subside from the news)? I'm interested, now, in response to the above as a marketing question, not necessarily a question of principal or sensitivity to the public (since this part of the question has already been well responded to in this thread). Thank you for your thoughts.
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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johnnymystic Inner circle North Adams Ma. 1576 Posts |
Why Mr.jlevey? Are you flip flopping? (Sounds like a double lift hehee) just jokin' man...
I can actually see in this day and age that an advertisment for the head chopper would be a really good selling point, it is obvious that our society eats this kinda thing up. For example, I am the only magician in Berkshire County that has a magic show like the one I do and it is not a politically correct program in most respects. However I am the most sought after 'Magician ' in the area because my show IS so different than all the rest. All the other magicians are doing the break away wand and magic coloring book, Hippy the Hop Rabbits etc. Do you get the idea? I'm doing much more which includes Boogers, Head Twisters, Head Choppers, Rope thru Neck, Ropes thru Body, Pocket Sawing, Bisection, Pencil thru Cheek, Needle thru Tounge, Needle thru Arm, Straightjacket, Voodoo Box and there is more, all in an hour show. Oh by the way, I also drop my drawers at the end of every show and it gets the biggest laugh of the program. How's that for politically incorrect? Lol! JOHNNY MYSTIC
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux <BR>I never inhale <BR>I can put a field dress on a deer |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Johnnymystic wrote:
Why Mr.jlevey...are you flip flopping...(sounds like a double lift hehee) just jokin' man... __________________________________________________ Mr. Levey wrote: Devil's advocate was the reason. I should have mentioned this. I like to see all sides and explore perspectives. Thank you for yours Johnny. Still I would like to have more input on the advertising side of the question, from the standpoint of putting a close-up of the buzz-saw image on your site (ie. volunteer's head in chopper, about to be cut into or siced... will it attract or dissuade potential prospects? Do you put it or don't you? Food for thought. All the best. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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HarbinJr. Elite user I only have 450 Posts |
Folks,
As I have read all these interesting posts on this thread I have had to sit back and think. Personally, I will continue to do my head chopper routine because it is a great comedy routine. I have had kids come up and not want to go thru the routine which I would then let them go. Many times I would lean over and whisper to the kid that its just a trick it wont hurt them and that well have fun. Typically they will stay up for the trick. I have had parents storm the stage to "force" thier child to go thru the trick. I do not permit this. If a person does not want to do something then they do not want to do it. To argue if the head chopper is going to be insensitive or not is really up to the individual performer. I have never had someone come up to me being offended by that effect. Normally they come up to me telling me how much they laughed by that effect. Now when it comes to our audience members, I really think that it is not the magician that should make the volunteer the butt of the joke but if anyone should be the butt of the joke it should BE the magician. If a audience sees that your making fun of yourself and not the audience they will love you. I am appalled by the stories that I always hear including the posts on this thread of how people are treated. There is no need to be dirty during a show. No need to be offensive as well. Just go out and have good clean fun, I mean that is what we as magicians normally promote. Looking at all these posts just makes me go back and look to triple check that my audiences will not be offended by what I perform and that they will have fun. Robert Long |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Personally,I feel that a head chopper effect is not appropriate for children. Children, as you know, have difficulty discerning reality from fantasy and the child that becomes the "victim" in the routine, may have agreed initially to vounteer, but as the blade is about to "cut" thru, they may become suddenly terrified and internally want "out" , yet be too embarrased in front of their firends to tell you (the performer).
At the same time, children in the audience may suddenly worry that the magician might make a "mistake", and their little friend might be seriously or fatally injured. I do not believe that doing the buzz saw or head guillotine for children is entertinment at its best. Even if it's done with comdey and laughter. And , yes, children are more prone to recurring nightmares than most adults. At least that's my honest opinion. Yet, the buzz-sae thru neck or guillotine is a great effect for adults, as long as the adult volunteer is handled with respect, and reassurance. By the way, always good to check with the client to see if the CEO that volunteers to put his/her head in the stocade has a heart condition. I've found out, just prior to my show, that the volunteer I had planned to bring up on stage had a pacemaker (on two ocassions). Not a good volunteer for this particular trick. Do you have insurance? Food for thought. All the best. Please note that a similar discussion has been taking place on another thread: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=0#11 I have posted a note there that encourages members to shift over to this particular thread for further discussion. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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R2 Special user 935 Posts |
I had taken this item out of my family shows.
My storyline presents the reason of why magicians can no longer be found performing in circus acts here in the United States. I decided to place it back into my programs. It recieved the same overwhelmingly strong tension reactions, as in the past. I think many folks have moved on and don't tie it in with the recent events in Iraq (as per our apprehensions). It will stay in my act from this point on. Give it a shot and you'll see? Signed, (flip-flopper)~r2 |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Makes sense. People have moved on. It's not in the news (thankfully) these days, etc.
Though, another element to consider is whether or not the volunteer that you call up has a strong heart. Not many performers have insurance to cover such a mishap on stage to pre-qualifying your volunteer's health is recommended by speaking to the "host" of the company party(ie. no pacemaker?, history of heart trouble? Good sense of humour, etc.). The issue of choosing volunteers for the Buzz saw trick, and performer liability insurance is probably a thread in itself...
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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R2 Special user 935 Posts |
I use one of my equipment techs for the sequence...I didn't like not knowing who was going to step into the stocks....It also wasted lots of time choosing a willing volunteer.....Once in awhile I might, but rarely....as for the mishaps, sure someone can die as a result of your failure to implement the necessary element that protects the volunteer. I have three built in safety features which all need to fail for me to lose a human life.
Check out my short little run with the guillotine on my website in the preview section at http://www.magicofreyrey.com Click on the Television Report logo. |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Nice quality video on your site Rey Rey.
Thanks also for your thoughtful suggestions.
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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R2 Special user 935 Posts |
Thanks Max! I'd be happy to share with you some more of my thoughts on the guillotine and it's presentation. The video on my site doesn't have the lag that other folks have on theirs.
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
Hey Rey Rey long time no speak. Yes definitely leave it in. No one ever expects anyone will actually lose their head and it can be presented with fun and frivolity.
As for the beheadings in Iraq, I would think Omar Posha's black art act would have a bit more trouble as he actually does behead his poor assistant using a large and looming saber - then hands the assistant his own head. It would be interesting to know if he has made any changes in his act or if it still comes off as good magic and entertaining to the audience.
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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