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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ Quantity / Volume of Shows? (20 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Can't resist can you? Please let us talk about the topic and not your agenda.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Since my lazy comment got twisted all out of context before I go maybe I should add:

In my book, ďInspiring Words To Help Get Your Lazy Butt Off The CouchĒ I explained that no one is immune to the occasional sluggishness, and if we are completely honest with ourselves, we all are in fact lazy at times. Itís nothing to be offended about, itís just a fact. How we got into the lazy mood isn't important. Getting out of that mood is very important. The book is not in print anymore and no longer available to the public but at one time it was a high dollar book on ebay. Maybe one day I will post a few excerpts from it.

Anyway back on topic. And I still say Ken said it well in his post.

Tom
lunatik
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Man I'd like to jump into this foray! Smile
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Since my lazy comment got twisted all out of context before I go maybe I should add:

In my book, ďInspiring Words To Help Get Your Lazy Butt Off The CouchĒ I explained that no one is immune to the occasional sluggishness, and if we are completely honest with ourselves, we all are in fact lazy at times. Itís nothing to be offended about, itís just a fact. How we got into the lazy mood isn't important. Getting out of that mood is very important. The book is not in print anymore and no longer available to the public but at one time it was a high dollar book on ebay. Maybe one day I will post a few excerpts from it.

Anyway back on topic. And I still say Ken said it well in his post.

Tom


Now your quoting YOURSELF to justify something YOU SAID? OH MY is this hilarious!! And more over quoting a book NOBODY has heard of and is out of print! Does it include stories from 1980 and tales of imaginary friends?

Your comment was not taken out of context. It was word for word.

"For some the goal should be to do both, more shows for more money per show.

Two problems come to mind:

1. Most magicians are lazy. They became self employed because they didnít want to work a full time job. And they never understand that being successful in your own business requires more work, not less.

2. Most magicians want to copy other magicians and the one thing that the successful ones have in common is they are not common at all. Those in huge demand are those that are unique.
There is only one Copperfield, Penn and Teler, Criss Angel, etc. True some look and act like them but thatís not being unique, not much demand for those.


Bonus Tip: The more you work the more demand you create.Smile


Tom"

YOU SAID the first problem is most magicians are lazy. Not that they are lazy at times if they are honest with themselves. No. Now you want to hang an air freshener on it since you got busted for being an elitist snob and acting all superior. You said it flat out and the "for some" was for the sentence above. It does not absolve you from acting like a nit later.

Also your second point is pretty offensive also accusing most guys of just being copies of others. Again maybe that is you and your career but it is not 90% of those I work with in any field.

Hopefully you are gone for real Tom. Stop derailing this thread please. It can still be salvaged. We all know what you are. We know all about your billion dollar companies, and your successful books and your incredible magic career and all that you are successful with. No need to keep going please. I know you are a last word sort so I am pretty sure you will be back. After all this is only the first time you implied you were done, I am sure you have lots more to go.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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So how do we get this back going again....

I think something Iím really zoning in on is creating a business where you are working as much as you want, and not waiting to get booked.
In the case of the 3 top performers I mentioned, that means their own theatre deal in Vegas.... that can be scaled to various markets and sizes of shows (Steve Cohen...).

Thereís also a few oppprtunities at theme parks, resorts, etc. that will actually hire performers seasonally... the right gig can be pretty good. Terry Ward has been at Disney World for close to 30 years now. Thatís another situation where he is working ALOT.
Dannydoyle
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I think you hit the key. Working as much as you want.

Now mind you this is easier said than done. It takes years, often decades to reach this. It is a wonderful illustration of the difference in simple and easy. Such as running a marathon could not be more simple. Just keep running until you're done. But it certainly is not easy.

Many if not all of us start where you take any gig can. Even those that might not fit are taken, and for good reason. Not only for money, but they hone you into a better performer.

I e guys here who don't take jobs because they don't "need" the money. In my mind as a performer what you learn from those shows is invaluable. I see it as a mistake to turn them down early in a career. It is often the only way to develop some skills.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, thomasR wrote:
So how do we get this back going again....

I think something Iím really zoning in on is creating a business where you are working as much as you want, and not waiting to get booked.
In the case of the 3 top performers I mentioned, that means their own theatre deal in Vegas.... that can be scaled to various markets and sizes of shows (Steve Cohen...).

Thereís also a few oppprtunities at theme parks, resorts, etc. that will actually hire performers seasonally... the right gig can be pretty good. Terry Ward has been at Disney World for close to 30 years now. Thatís another situation where he is working ALOT.


Idea is to partner with an established business that has a steady stream of customers that you can convert to fans of yours.

Much smaller than Disney but I know some thatís done this with the pizza business with great success.

Some do well working the different month long Renaissance Fairs. Also the established weekend flea markets could work. Some are large with great attendance.

Tom
Dannydoyle
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Not even close to the point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kevin Ridgeway
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Lots of great informative in this thread. Mostly from two gentlemen I truly admire and value their experience and input. For us and the market that we do 95% of our work in, there is a ceiling on price or Ďwhat the market will bearí. So there were several things that pointed to how we can make more money.

First- Do more shows as the OP stayed. 2018 was our busiest year and we did exactly 350 shows.

Second- Routing. Of those 350 shows we did them all in 6,111 miles. We have a bus and stacker trailer that hauls the show and a car, so fuel mileage is quite low. Even with that, we spent only $4,000 in fuel for the entire year. Less wear and tear on equipment and us. Plus more money in our pocket.

Third- We sell Kristenís merchandise after each show. We would like to be doing more, but it does fairly well. More shows equals more merchandise sales.

Fourth- More shows equals more audience which equals more opportunities for the right person to see us that wants or needs our services. Our show IS our own infomercial. And we get paid to advertise as such.

Hope that helps!!!
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
Dannydoyle
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Only 4 grand in fuel? The two of you need to give driving lessons! Talk about fuel efficiency.

Also condescending the shows into that mileage is an amazing tip.

Kevin how many years was ir before you could squash the schedule to that geographic location or was it something you did immediately?

As I mentioned when there is nothing to bring but a car and suitcase it is not as big an issue. But with the load in you guys have it must be a HUGE consideration, along with routing. (Which will be my next pesty question so get ready.)

Also GET WELL!
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, thomasR wrote:
While I donít know for a fact, I canít imagine Copperfields tours were losing money. In fact the Forbes article mentioned Criss Angel and David Blaine being as successful as they were that year (2017-2018) because of touring. Now his resident show might be making more money for him, since heís not paying for trucking, transportation, etc.... certainly a business case to be made for a resident show.


I did not explain my story very well. I did not mean to suggest Copperfield lost money on his tours. Mark Wilson was very humble in the fact that his advice turned out to be dead wrong. I'm sure Copperfield's tours were very successful.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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Mindpro
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So great to hear from Kevin and Kristen. I hope you're both doing well and feeling better. Great to hear some insight from others working the road too. This is a great example of when I said the answer to the OP's question could be dependent on business model or as in this case the market you serve. Also great numbers you mention as well. There's two ways to make money in business - generate more business and revenue, and reduce and decrease expenses.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2019, Ken Northridge wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, thomasR wrote:
While I donít know for a fact, I canít imagine Copperfields tours were losing money. In fact the Forbes article mentioned Criss Angel and David Blaine being as successful as they were that year (2017-2018) because of touring. Now his resident show might be making more money for him, since heís not paying for trucking, transportation, etc.... certainly a business case to be made for a resident show.


I did not explain my story very well. I did not mean to suggest Copperfield lost money on his tours. Mark Wilson was very humble in the fact that his advice turned out to be dead wrong. I'm sure Copperfield's tours were very successful.



The lecture I watched, Mark was talking about losing money on the TV specials. But they were needed to promote his name.


Tom
TomBoleware
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ThomasR, my apologies for being a part of the distraction.

But I am confused, are you looking to tour a show or a stationary place to perform, like many that have been mentioned? You might say, having a place to come home to.

The fair market where you have to set up, tear down and then move to the next town every week or so is not something you can compare to a Vegas type Show that sits there,
a dinner show, etc located in the same place all the time. Is it?

Tom
Dannydoyle
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He is not saying he is looking to do either.

Were you not gonna to be done? Can't stop can you?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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I understand him wanting to do either more shows or fewer shows
Just curious on how he wants to do it.

Thatís all.
Tom
Dannydoyle
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"I don't have a direct question.. more like a general train of thought that I think could be interesting to discuss."

You could try actually reading his first post.

Those of us who actually perform have been answering. You have been derailing. Can you stop now? Obviously you are not even paying attention.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Iím open to both. I love historic theaters and would love to create a show designed to perform in those types of venues and tour them... but thatís my personal interest. If it makes more business sense to have a sit down show, Iím open to that as well. As Danny mentioned... thatís not a quick journey to get to.

But the post is more than what Iím personally interested in... itís driving home the point that one show a weekend, no matter how much you get per show, is never going to equal 5 nights a week worth of revenue.

Loved hearing from Kevin, mentioning the Merch sales is very important!
TomBoleware
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Yes Kevin is a hard worker.

Sometimes I think he has to get hurt to take time off. LOL

He is also a good example of one needing a unique act to stay busy.

Wishing him the best

Tom
Kevin Ridgeway
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Only 4 grand in fuel? The two of you need to give driving lessons! Talk about fuel efficiency.

Also condescending the shows into that mileage is an amazing tip.

Kevin how many years was ir before you could squash the schedule to that geographic location or was it something you did immediately?

As I mentioned when there is nothing to bring but a car and suitcase it is not as big an issue. But with the load in you guys have it must be a HUGE consideration, along with routing. (Which will be my next pesty question so get ready.)

Also GET WELL!


Danny...it took roughly 10 year of learning the road from seasoned performers and making enough good contacts ourselves. For years we did 15,000-20,000 miles a year. That was way too many miles and too much wear and tear on myself and Kristen. We took every show we could, and the biggest thing is said yes TOO EARLY, causing us to cross cross the country like madmen.

Now we focus on several anchor dates and fill in the holes. For several years now we have focused on the Midwest and more importantly the Southeast part the the country. We only had two big jumps of 600 miles each. Everything else were short jumps of 42 miles, 75miles, 150 miles, etc. Our entire fall was 8 weeks just in Georgia alone. Last year those final 8 weeks of the year came to a total of 345 miles. Thatís 8 weeks and 112 shows with only $210 in fuel costs. That comes out to less than $2 per show in fuel costs.

Hopefully that didnít bore everyone to death with the numbers and it wasn't intended to impress anyone. But just wanted to explain one of the ways to KEEP more money in your pocket.

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes. Iím getting better and we plan to start back to shows August 2nd.
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ Quantity / Volume of Shows? (20 Likes)
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