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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts 
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I was doing a show the other night, and a volunteer I called on stage said something that made me want to respond with a joke answer. The joke would NOT have been at the volunteer's expense, but just a funny line in general. It would have been very funny and probably gotten a large laugh. I did not make the joke though. The joke I thought of belonged to another performer. I chose the high road and the ethical one. Here is the question though. The stand-up performer whose joke it was had been dead for 25 years or so. Would this, as a one-off, be considered stealing material?
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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It depends on whether or not it is encrypted.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3662 Posts
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Sometimes there is a way to work in attribution and still get a laugh.
I'm not sure what I'd have done but I think I would have gone for the joke without attribution (because it is hard to write the line that way in front of people). I think I would want to entertain the people in front of me now and I would probably think it was OK because the original writer had passed. I have used the lines of some dear friends who have passed and I smile inside when I do. I don't always use their line but just as you described in a one off situation. Using the line after that can call to you but I would at least do a re-write so that it better suited the act. I constantly steal my partner Tom's lines because he doesn't do Kid's shows anymore and he's not using 'em. I certainly do attribute them in my heart but I don't think that makes it more ethical. LOL I've written a lot of material for Tom so I'm OK with that anyway. I think many of us have used a line in the heat of the moment, the ethical question is if we continue to go there after we get a laugh. Good for you for self control. -Mary Mowder |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Well theft does not depend on how many times you steal. Theft is theft. Just doing it once does not make it less theft, if indeed it is.
If you do not have permission to use the joke then it is theft. If the performer has been dead for 25 years, you are just stealing old jokes. Telling people who you steal from is not relevant. Also not very entertaining. Too many people make excuses like it is a one iff, or if I just attribute it or many others. Those justify your own behavior. They do not solve the problem. The solution is to write your own joke for the situation. Stealing material is a very serious problem in comedy. The way it becomes not stealing is getting permission. Not tune after death and not just telling whom you have stolen from.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3662 Posts
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Are you saying that anyone who quotes Mark Twain or Will Rogers with attribution is a thief? I've laughed at many such quotes so I know they can be entertaining.
"If indeed it is" seems out of place with the rest of your post. What is your position? I agree that doing your own writing is best. I am not really justifying my behavior as much as honestly sharing and examining my own behavior. -Mary Mowder |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Giving credit and using a 25 year old joke doesn’t even come close to stealing. There is no better way to remember the writer.
Giving credit is as easy as saying this reminds me of what a long past comedian (name) would say, etc, etc. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Try telling Carlin jokes in a comedy club. You will be banned. Obviously Tom has never worked one or seen the uproar this problem causes.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2019, Mary Mowder wrote: Seriously this is what you think he was asking? Stealing lines in comedy is s HUGE issue. Goggle Joe Rogan Carlis Mencia to get a feel for juat how touchy this subject is. ALL some performers have is what they write. It survives then beyond death. Mark Twain was a writer not performer. I just don't think you know how serious the issue is. See when you give credit as Tom suggests you agree simply telling an audience, and your peers that you are not clever enough to write something yourself. There are LOTS of much better ways to remember performers. Stealing their lines isn't one of them. Besides the answer is in the question. If it is not wrong why do it as a one iff? Why not do it always? Obviously you know it is wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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"Let’s see, what would the late Will Rogers say about right now, oh I know……..(add line here)"
Not even close to stealing. Silly to think it is. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Lazy writing at best. I didn't pay to great what anyone but the performer has to say.
Also not the original question. Stop moving the goal posts.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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I didn’t see in the original question where it was in a comedy club. Don't know why you jumped there.
Still I was responding mainly to Mary's post about quoting people like Twain and Will Rogers. No need to jump me for not working comedy clubs. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2019, Cliffg37 wrote: This pretty clearly puts it in the stand up comedy realm. I am telling you in stand up comedy circles it is theft. Try reading and comprehending and you won't have these issues. He want talking about quoting Mark Twain or some other centuries dead humorist. He was going to use a line from another stand up word for word apparently. This is theft. Stop trying to justify bad behavior work ignorance. Now as Cliff said he made the right choice and DIDN'T DO IT. Good on him. Stop telling people theft is ok please. It is bad for art.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Are you still saying quoting people like Twain and Will Rogers is stealing?
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote: You've found a situation where a line would help... what would work for your character? Folks recognize signature George Burns, Jack Benny and Bugs Bunny lines which address the audience.On Jun 9, 2019, Cliffg37 wrote:
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Exactly, and when it is recognized by the audience as being a well known personality like that, not only is it still funny, it shows that you too appreciate and respect the writers work. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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It can. It's also a question of breaking character. If the audience sees the moment and you are responding in a way they can anticipate in character then there's something to work on. Anyway if you like someone's line and want to use it, please ask them or their estate about it. The comedy clubs have had a rough time with established talent attending shows and lifting lines off those who have not made it yet. In Juggling Michael Moschen was not pleased when folks started imitating his work.
When you ask about an item you might recieve something better than than an "okay" - you might get some help or useful connections for future work.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2019, TomBoleware wrote: I don't know I said it in the first place.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Did anyone google Joe Rogan and Carlos Mencia? Because the op is talking about lifting a line from a stand up. NOT quoting Mark Twain.
He had 2 excuses. First dead for 25 years. Certainly that makes it less stealing right? Second was a one off. Each of which is nonsense. Forget quoting anyone. He is talking about using a line from another performers act. When this is done without permission it is THEFT. Regardless of how long anyone is dead or only doing it once. Stop hurting the arts Tom. His instinct wad to do the right thing. Stop encouraging him to do otherwise.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Subcultures have their own rules. What might be appropriate among magicians or singers might not be among comedians. Danny is telling you what the rules of a very particular subculture are. It doesn't really matter whether you think it's right or wrong--he's telling you what *is* among the group, and what might get you hurt.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts
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I didn't mean to start a debate on this. Phrases used on stage such as, "In the word of the great Mark Twain...." or "As Confucious said..." Go over quite well, but they are not spontaneous. They can be scripted, sometimes to excellent effect, but not spontaneous.
I am not a thief. Among people who know me, it is not hard to find someone who does not like me, but it is nearly impossible to find people who don't trust me. I did not steal, and I won't. I was just curious if anyone knew if comedy material has an expiration of copyright like novels do. I guess the answer is no. there is no expiration.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Posted: Jun 9, 2019 02:24 pm 
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