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Claudio
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Thanks Bob. And indeed, the magic impact, on "normal" spectators, is not correlated to the difficulty of the sleights used. To be honest, I get more magical impact/emotion from my version of Do As I Do than with Vernon's Running The Scale.
countrymaven
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Thanks Claudio. Yes, as a pro, it became pretty clear to me that our goal should be to keep our skills up. At the same time, there is very little connection between difficult sleights and maximum impact on spectators. I am not saying never, just that normally, a simple but subtle DL will be more reliable and more useful than something that impresses other magicians.
Tortuga
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Quote:
On Jun 27, 2019, countrymaven wrote:
Thanks Claudio. Yes, as a pro, it became pretty clear to me that our goal should be to keep our skills up. At the same time, there is very little connection between difficult sleights and maximum impact on spectators. I am not saying never, just that normally, a simple but subtle DL will be more reliable and more useful than something that impresses other magicians.


Yes, I agree. Audiences aren't stupid and they know that if we distribute aces into 4 different areas of a pack and then shuffle that somehow we were able to gain control over them and find them again. They may give us credit for how quickly and smoothly we accomplished the feat, but they shouldn't have even the slightest hint of HOW it was done. If The spectator does have a clue then you have failed no matter how easy or difficult the sleight was.
cfirwin3
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Strongly reccomend working on false dealing as you work out your push off DL. The cross transfer of technique will get you two for the price of one (esp. on dealing seconds).
cfirwin3
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Quote:
On Jun 27, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2019, countrymaven wrote:
Thanks Claudio. Yes, as a pro, it became pretty clear to me that our goal should be to keep our skills up. At the same time, there is very little connection between difficult sleights and maximum impact on spectators. I am not saying never, just that normally, a simple but subtle DL will be more reliable and more useful than something that impresses other magicians.


Yes, I agree. Audiences aren't stupid and they know that if we distribute aces into 4 different areas of a pack and then shuffle that somehow we were able to gain control over them and find them again. They may give us credit for how quickly and smoothly we accomplished the feat, but they shouldn't have even the slightest hint of HOW it was done. If The spectator does have a clue then you have failed no matter how easy or difficult the sleight was.


Unless it's a gambling/cheating demo. The 1 plot in card magic where the audience is supposed to be (or at least think that they are) in on the secret.
Bob G
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"Strongly reccomend working on false dealing as you work out your push off DL. The cross transfer of technique will get you two for the price of one (esp. on dealing seconds)."


Interesting idea, cfirwin3. I don't think I'll actually have time to work on both, but I like the theory. Just in case, do you have a favorite source or two for dealing seconds? I have the Card College books; I imagine Giiobbi discusses them.
Bob G
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Magicwilia, How's your DL-ing going? I've never tried the Martin Nash technique, but I watched the description in Greg Wilson's Double Take DVD -- what a pretty sleight! How are you finding it? If I can find some time I want to try it.


Like you, I'm working on the small packet DL, as described by Hamman, Lorayne, and others. It must be one of those knack things. Sometimes I get it, other times I nearly get it and lose it at the last minute, and yet other times it's an abject failure! Some people use a pinky pulldown or a buckle as a get-ready, but I'd prefer, if I can, to learn the Hamman technique.


Bob
magicwiia
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Hi Bob.

Here's what I've found so far. I'm far more confident using the Instantaneous DL with a full pack than with a small packet, say 4 cards in an Ace Assembly. I've paid for a number of videos regarding DLs some showing the Brother Hamman small packet DL technique. In spite of watching Liam Montier's technique in The Double Lift Project, the proficiency with a small packet still eludes me.

My Knockout DL is the one I am most confident with. When I snap the two cards over, they are immediately grabbed and held at the top by my opposite hand's thumb and middle finger. That allows me to keep the cards tightly in alignment. I am not nearly as confident the two cards will be in that close of alignment with the Instantaneous DL.

In my opinion, Jason England's "Double Lift" video on Theory11 is the best video/DVD regarding the DL I've paid for, bar none. At $6.95, it's a bargain as well.

https://store.theory11.com/products/doub......-england

I aspire to be able to do a DL like Lance Pierce in his Another Four-Ace Trick video. Effortless and silky-smooth with a breathtaking fluidity that defies description:

https://vimeo.com/60859878
Francois Lagrange
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Great handling by Lance Pierce, but his with all his talent, he still misses his push-off DL @2.29. Plus, there is a lot of card spreading (to secure breaks) which could be cleaned up with using a pinkie-count. Just saying.
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The Burnaby Kid
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Can you specify where the unnecessary spreading is? A lot of the handling seems to be there for deliberate displays, specifically to throw off people who might be thinking MacDonald's Aces.
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Bob G
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Sounds like you're progressing well, Magicwilia. You clearly have the determination and interest it takes to succeed in card magic, so I have no doubt you'll get the small packet DL too. (If you get it before I do, let me know if you figured out The Secret -- which I doubt exists; you just have to practice a lot and mold he descriptions to your own hands.)
Rachmaninov
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Perfectly right Bob, intelligent practice (first understand the whole picture, how the sleight should looks like, then understand all the mechanisms, and then the details which are idiosyncratic) and « mold the descriptions to your own hands », I like a lot your phrasing !
Bob G
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Thanks, Rachmaninov -- much appreciated. I'll be in touch soon.


Bob
magicwiia
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On Jun 26, 2019, Claudio wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 26, 2019, CardGuyMike wrote:
If you really want to put in the work, learn how to do a multiple push-off.

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/......pushoff/


My own attempt at multiple pushoffs from 1 to 7 cards. Based on the second deal I learnt straight from Expert Card Technique. I use this when I perform Dai Vernon's Running the scale effect.

But all in all, I think that less demanding techniques will be more beneficial when one's learning DLs.



Claudio - what amount of pressure do you apply with your left thumb when you are pushing off the cards...is it a light pressure? Also, are you pushing them out parallel to the side of the deck or at an angle?
Claudio
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On Jul 4, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Claudio - what amount of pressure do you apply with your left thumb when you are pushing off the cards...is it a light pressure? Also, are you pushing them out parallel to the side of the deck or at an angle?


Counter-intuitively, the amount of pressure hardly changes: it's light. But, the more cards to push off, the more my thumb gets to the left, like a gun cocking action if you like. That allows my thump tip a bigger contact with the cards and therefore the more I can push off. To recap, the more "flesh" enters in contact with the card edges, the more cards get pushed off.

The cards pivot and are always under control. You'll see that I hold the deck rather firmly.
Bob G
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A spin-off from magicwillia's question and your answer, Claudio: do your fingers (as opposed to your thumb) play a role, too? I've been practicing pushing off two cards and then bringing them back to form a pinky break under two cards. I'm trying to develop sensitivity in my fingers so that I can feel how many cards have slid out.


Bob
Claudio
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On Jul 4, 2019, Bob G wrote:
A spin-off from magicwillia's question and your answer, Claudio: do your fingers (as opposed to your thumb) play a role, too? I've been practicing pushing off two cards and then bringing them back to form a pinky break under two cards. I'm trying to develop sensitivity in my fingers so that I can feel how many cards have slid out.
Bob


Hi Bob, for me the key is thumb "sensitivity". I can feel how many cards I push off, and whether I have the right number. It reminds me a bit of riffle stacking in this regard where progressively your thumbs lean to discriminate how many cards they're holding back.

It's relatively easy to feel the difference between 1,2 or 3 cards, which is all you really need 99% of the time. What is more difficult is to consistency pushing out the number of cards required, apart from one, of course. Something that helped me when I first worked on second dealing (all those many years ago) was to first push off, ie pivot, a single card, then get back to the edge, with card always under thumb control, and push off a second card. And if you wish, get back to edge of deck with the double under control and push off a third card.

It might be easier to start this way than to try to push off two or three cards at once. You'll get the feel for it and later it'll be easier to start pushing multiple cards at once.

The other fingers, in my case, besides holding and pressing the deck against the palm, act as a simple gauge to help limit the number of cards pushed out.
magicwiia
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Claudio - one more question if I may. It appears the deck is beveled outward toward your fingers.

Is that correct and, if so, do you bevel it out as much while keeping control of the deck?
Bob G
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Claudio,



I like the idea this drill: "Something that helped me when I first worked on second dealing (all those many years ago) was to first push off, ie pivot, a single card, then get back to the edge, with card always under thumb control, and push off a second card. And if you wish, get back to edge of deck with the double under control and push off a third card." I'll give it a try.


Bob
Claudio
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On Jul 5, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Claudio - one more question if I may. It appears the deck is beveled outward toward your fingers.

Is that correct and, if so, do you bevel it out as much while keeping control of the deck?


Yes the deck is bevelled, but only the upper part, the bottom is not. Just before I place the deck in dealing grip, left thumb and 2nd finger hold the deck on each long side of deck at the very top and the thumb pushed outwards and the deck goes into mechanic's grip. I don't believe this to be essential though, it's just that the deck feels more comfortable in my hand this way. The left 1st finger plays an important role in keeping the deck nice and tidy.
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