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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Instantaneous or No-get-ready DLs (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kShepher
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I've become enamoured with the Brother Hamman double. I think a no get-ready double is extremely valuable. I am re-working though Harry's Challange Aces from CUCM. They are burning your hands. The Hamman comes in really handy.
magicfish
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kShepher
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That's absolutely perfect! Exactly as taught, including the tilt deck in the left hand. That's a subtlety not picked up on the first reading.

The Brother created a great double! (Or triple).
magicwiia
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 26, 2019, Mike Powers wrote:
Try Martin Nash's double. There's no get ready. It resembles a two card push off, but there's a squaring action that allows the two cards to separate a bit without causing problems.

Mike


The original post indicates that he is working on the Knockout Double. I recommend he keep working on that one as well.


When I do the hit/instantaeous DL, I bevel the cards outward to allow me to more easily get at second card. I do the same with the Knockout DL except I bevel the cards toward the bottom. Ideally, I'd like to use a push off with the Knockout but not until I am confident with the other first. I tried the push off and after several days I wasn't progressing as hoped and stopped practicing it. I decided I want to be able to at least do it one way (no-get-ready) I'll revisit the push off at some point.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2019, kShepher wrote:
That's absolutely perfect! Exactly as taught, including the tilt deck in the left hand. That's a subtlety not picked up on the first reading.

The Brother created a great double! (Or triple).

Thanks k, he sure did. A great turnover technique from a great book.
JasonEngland
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Although I've used the term before, I've come to believe that there are no "no get ready" doubles. There are "no break" doubles, but feeling for two edges ala a Nash or Hamman DL is a get ready in my book. If there is so much as a fraction of a second where you're trying to ensure you engage 2 cards instead of 1 (or 3), then you're utilizing a get ready.

The goal is to minimize it to the point where it may as well not be there, or to disguise/cover it so that it's not perceived in the first place. These are subtle points to be sure, but I think they're worth making if you want to excel at doubles, versus being merely capable at them.

Jason

PS: I don't recall the magician that first made this point to me. At first I resisted, but I've come to agree on the whole.
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Francois Lagrange
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Excellent point, but I think Claudio made a similar point at the start of this thread:

Quote:
On Jun 26, 2019, Claudio wrote:
...
One last word regarding the notion of get-ready. I believe that most (if not all?) DLs require a get-ready. For instance when I perform a push-over or a Hit double, I adjust the packet in my hand (squaring, bevelling etc.) to facilitate the incoming DL. Maybe not very insightful, as it could be applied to any move, but I thought I'd mention it.
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Tortuga
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Quote:
On Jul 9, 2019, JasonEngland wrote:
Although I've used the term before, I've come to believe that there are no "no get ready" doubles. There are "no break" doubles, but feeling for two edges ala a Nash or Hamman DL is a get ready in my book. If there is so much as a fraction of a second where you're trying to ensure you engage 2 cards instead of 1 (or 3), then you're utilizing a get ready.

The goal is to minimize it to the point where it may as well not be there, or to disguise/cover it so that it's not perceived in the first place. These are subtle points to be sure, but I think they're worth making if you want to excel at doubles, versus being merely capable at them.

Jason

PS: I don't recall the magician that first made this point to me. At first I resisted, but I've come to agree on the whole.


I agree. Even if obtaining a double from a spread, you have to spread the cards and that is in essence a get-ready. The other thing to keep in mind is that depending on the situation you can put some time misdirection in between the get-ready and the lift so that it appears to be instantaneous. The only lift I could see as possibly no get ready is a nail-gauge lift, but again, you pretty much need a squared deck so that is also debatable.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Jul 9, 2019, JasonEngland wrote:
Although I've used the term before, I've come to believe that there are no "no get ready" doubles. There are "no break" doubles, but feeling for two edges ala a Nash or Hamman DL is a get ready in my book. If there is so much as a fraction of a second where you're trying to ensure you engage 2 cards instead of 1 (or 3), then you're utilizing a get ready.

The goal is to minimize it to the point where it may as well not be there, or to disguise/cover it so that it's not perceived in the first place. These are subtle points to be sure, but I think they're worth making if you want to excel at doubles, versus being merely capable at them.

Jason

PS: I don't recall the magician that first made this point to me. At first I resisted, but I've come to agree on the whole.

The beauty of the Hamman Technique is that there is no feeling for two edges or feeling to ensure you've only engaged two cards.
But I respect your point.
Now with the DD Double, you have to feel and ensure, but once mastered, I think it comes as close as humanly possible to natural looking stud turnover of a 'single' card- with zero get ready.
But again, I hear what you're saying.
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On Jul 9, 2019, magicfish wrote:

The beauty of the Hamman Technique is that there is no feeling for two edges or feeling to ensure you've only engaged two cards.


No, but there is a corrective action applied after the initial push of the top 2 or 3 cards. That corrective action causes the same sort of hiccup in the rhythm of the DL/DT that other versions have. Most of those "clarifying pauses" occur before the DL begins - either by a pinky count, thumb count, spread and close action, or by feeling for 2 cards at the right long edge. But a few, namely the Nash-style and Hamman style turnovers, begin the physical action first, then isolate the double and continue turning/dragging/pivoting.

It's that clarifying isolation moment, even if it takes only a half-second and regardless of whether it happens before or during the main DL action, that stands out to other magicians. I'm willing to admit that perhaps "get ready" isn't the most accurate term, since that implies something that happened before the main DL action. Perhaps "clarifying action" or "isolation action" are better?

Jason

PS: If memory serves, the Hamman DL does utilize a bevel - so that could be considered a "get ready" in the truer sense of the word.
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Tortuga
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I'm trying to come up with an all-encompassing term for the "corrective" action or "clarifying" action. The first one that comes to mind is alignment. The alignment, or even realignment is certainly a separate step. The step can be blended with another action but it does cause a hiccup as Jason pointed out. It does, if only for a half-beat, interrupt the rhythm.

So many will consider this a trifle, but details are truly important.
ancientmagic
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Hey everyone, this is not an advertisement, but it's the only posted video I have of a Strike Locked Double that's available. I developed this technique and its versions back in 1980. It does not use the traditional get ready, it is instantaneous, but Jason and I talked about this when I released it a few years back. The strike locking technique, no matter how undetectable, is in one way a form of a get ready as is any time you have to register two or more cards. In this case I am able to perfectly register two cards immediately and "lock" them for pick up and handling. I just thought I would put up the link to the page so you could see that a perfect registry can be achieved without a bevel and it can be instantaneous looking.

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/artofm......-system/

Cheers,

John
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magicfish
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Just to clarify to those who don't know, the Hamman technique I demonstrated above has an exaggerated bevel- more than what is necessary, and more than described by Kaufman in his excellent book.
Francois Lagrange
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Nice demo John. Tight and elegant technique.

What magicfish demonstrated is not the Hamman Instant Double.
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Francois Lagrange wrote:
Nice demo John. Tight and elegant technique.

What magicfish demonstrated is not the Hamman Instant Double.

It most certainly is.
Francois Lagrange
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Francois Lagrange wrote:
Nice demo John. Tight and elegant technique.

What magicfish demonstrated is not the Hamman Instant Double.

It most certainly is.


From your handling though, I'd bet Richard Kaufman would not recognize his description of the move.
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magicfish
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He would, and he has. As would Bro. Hamman.
If you are are referring to the exaggerated bevel, there is a reason. Otherwise, it is as described in the book.
Rachmaninov
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Wonderful technique Magicfish. I’m very impressed. It’s the most natural handling of any double turnover I have ever seen. I need to check the book !
magicfish
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Thanks Rach.
Richard Kaufman
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Https://youtu.be/MtivFz_fYjc


Brother Hamman would be extremely proud of you, magicfish! You do it perfectly.

It should be noted that the DD Double, which I think refers to the Double Lift which is published in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle, is actually Ken Krenzel's (and he published it first). Dingle only developed that lift to use when working for magicians, because the Gordon Double Lift was a very tight secret at the time and he could not use it when working for magicians.

I've never cared for for Martin Nash's lift where you hit the corner of one card and push it in line with the second card before the turnover.

There will be some interesting multiple lift techniques in "Mr. Jennings Takes It Easy."
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