The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Brand new here & confused (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19734 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I have never had anyone angry. Mainly because when you do the show you ask for VOLUNTEERS, you don't force people. What can they possibly be angry about?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Wravyn
View Profile
Inner circle
1787 Posts

Profile of Wravyn
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired?
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
I don't know-perhaps being humiliated or embarrassed about their actions? one would think that perhaps if they were very skeptical in the first place, even though they may have volunteered, doing very silly things in public-even as part of a show- may elicit anger or other negative reactions?

for example, recently I was looking at some of the old posts in this forum and found the post below which discusses the fact that many hypnotists vehemently disagree with the claims in the FAQ about which I first started this thread. it is things like this which greatly add to the confusion about this subject. #1, 5 6 & 8 would also suggest great potential for a negative reaction

"Not changed it's just that many GOOD hypnotists would disagree with several of his points. Here is what 'I' would say

In point
1) I think the hypnotist CAN make you do things against your will
2)Some CANNOT come out of it of their own freewill
4) Some are completely unconscious (or to be precise: 'unaware') of what's going on.
5)One CAN be made to reveal secrets
6)Hypnosis CAN be dangerous
8) I think there is a tad of emperical evidence out there that certain types ARE addicted to hypnosis.
(note that the numbers are based on how HE numbered them)

I wouldn't have a desire to argue with anyone on all of these, however my experience tells me that points: 1,4,5 and 6 are correct.
Like I said, I/we know things today we didn't know a couple years ago. The only reason I believe someone as skilled as Lee Darrow wouldn't know that is because he never tried, probably based on the fact that his mentor told him it couldn't be done perhaps?
ie: getting a stranger's pin number is now standard stock for many street hypnotists, is it not? What would Lee have said? That it didn't happen?"
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
"By the time I get volunteers on stage they have been properly informed and educated, misconceptions removed and dealt with, and have already shown signs of being a god subject through conditioning and Pretesting, so all of that is prevented if it ever would exist."

Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times? it seems that this would very much contradict what you said about most of them not remembering much or anything they did. I would think that not being able to recall one's actions would cause anxiety & fear for some people. I know it certainly would in my case. just the thought of acting silly & irrationally in public makes me upset & anxious.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired?


For a decade I toured with my (adult) daughter until she turned about 30 and wanted to focus on her own things. Since then I do it all myself, which is why I am pretty no-nonsense about it all. They know before they come up I will not be keeping everyone and that some will get sent back. I do it in a very acceptable and courteous way, so there are no negative implications.

You do get a feel for it but there are many different things going on at all times (induction, running my own production music, sfx, etc.) and of course proper management of so many subjects and their safety at all times. You do get used to it but I will admit I preferred it much more with my assistant.

I don't like someone "in the wings", I'd either want them in my show or not at all.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times?


I definitely never said that or ever would.
Wravyn
View Profile
Inner circle
1787 Posts

Profile of Wravyn
Ahisma42, I can't answer for either Mindpro or Danny. Yet from my own personal understanding, a pre-talk about what the audience is going to witness and the committee will be experiencing is both educational and entertaining at the same time. This sets both the audience and the future committee volunteers at ease with acceptable boundaries. Since you mention that you would be anxious, I would feel safe to say that you would accept the suggestion of being a member of the audience and not allow yourself to go on stage.
I may be wrong in that I feel that the pre-talk itself is a form of mass waking induction, allowing all to accept or reject the suggestion of entering the lime light or sitting back and enjoying the phenomena of hypnosis at work.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
I don't know-perhaps being humiliated or embarrassed about their actions? one would think that perhaps if they were very skeptical in the first place, even though they may have volunteered, doing very silly things in public-even as part of a show- may elicit anger or other negative reactions?


I don't do the type of show that is embarrassing, demeaning or anything that would cause or create regret. Now there are many hypnotists that do, they don't care about embarrassing the subjects, some their show is actually all about it, but even then, the subjects know that before they volunteer and come up.

You seem to be caught up in this "making them feel embarrassed" or concerned about their actions or "being angered." It is just this type of theoretic thinking and mentalities that some of these guys with little or no experience write about. There are things you can do to prevent this.

I also disagree with you that people would volunteer if they are skeptical as they likely would be more "embarrassed" about being dismissed. You must also remember their responses are their own creation so if anything of the sort did happen it wasn't because I "made them do it" it was of their own doing and if they were concerned about being embarrassed they wouldn't let themselves do it in the first place.
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times?


I definitely never said that or ever would.


the reason why I ask is that what I stated is often used to try and allay the fears of potential subjects-it's even in the FAQ of this very forum.
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Ahisma42, I can't answer for either Mindpro or Danny. Yet from my own personal understanding, a pre-talk about what the audience is going to witness and the committee will be experiencing is both educational and entertaining at the same time. This sets both the audience and the future committee volunteers at ease with acceptable boundaries. Since you mention that you would be anxious, I would feel safe to say that you would accept the suggestion of being a member of the audience and not allow yourself to go on stage.
I may be wrong in that I feel that the pre-talk itself is a form of mass waking induction, allowing all to accept or reject the suggestion of entering the lime light or sitting back and enjoying the phenomena of hypnosis at work.


thanks Wyvern-i'm not even sure I would want to be in the audience either to tell you the truth. sometimes my fear of appearing foolish extends to watching other who are too.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times?


I definitely never said that or ever would.


the reason why I ask is that what I stated is often used to try and allay the fears of potential subjects-it's even in the FAQ of this very forum.


I still do not see where they say they will be completely "conscious".

I think you may be confusing "being aware" with being "conscious".
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

I also disagree with you that people would volunteer if they are skeptical as they likely would be more "embarrassed" about being dismissed. You must also remember their responses are their own creation so if anything of the sort did happen it wasn't because I "made them do it" it was of their own doing and if they were concerned about being embarrassed they wouldn't let themselves do it in the first place.


this is the crux of my consternation. I have heard this stated before many times but then read about experienced people on this very forum who claim that people can be made to give up personal secrets and made to do things unwillingly (as shown in my previous post of the copy & paste from a old thread about the FAQ) even if you personally don't do this. what you said makes perfect sense if these things are not true but apparently many here claim that they are true.

also, I don't quite understand why all those people would be OK with not remembering what they did during the show. in any area of life, not remembering one's own actions would be considered a major problem by most people.
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

I still do not see where they say they will be completely "conscious".

I think you may be confusing "being aware" with being "conscious".


i'm not sure I understand the difference. can someone be unconscious but still aware?

also, from #4 on the FAQ:
" Many people are worried by stage hypnosis and the fact that the subjects, many of whom do ridicu­lous things during the session, seem to have no knowledge of anything around them or recollection of what they did after the show."

which seems to contradict what you said about people not remembering much or anything after the show.
Wravyn
View Profile
Inner circle
1787 Posts

Profile of Wravyn
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired?


For a decade I toured with my (adult) daughter until she turned about 30 and wanted to focus on her own things. Since then I do it all myself, which is why I am pretty no-nonsense about it all. They know before they come up I will not be keeping everyone and that some will get sent back. I do it in a very acceptable and courteous way, so there are no negative implications.

You do get a feel for it but there are many different things going on at all times (induction, running my own production music, sfx, etc.) and of course proper management of so many subjects and their safety at all times. You do get used to it but I will admit I preferred it much more with my assistant.

I don't like someone "in the wings", I'd either want them in my show or not at all.


Thank you.
Do you tour or do you have a home venue?

In reading Danny's posts, it sounds like he has 'home venues' in which he is booked for weeks/months on end and in areas that I don't believe I would be able to vacation to.

I know there are shows in Vegas, but that is a bit out of reach for me also. I'm not a big city person.


I have seen hypno shows by some of the street-to-stage persons in my area over the years and was underwhelmed with the experience.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I never said they don't remember. They do, as I said the minute someone tells them or mentions to them about what they did they are able to recall it. They do remember. Think of it as yourself when you wake up in the morning after a full nights sleep. You may not remember everything you dreamt about, but later if something makes you think about something it may trigger the memory of it.

You must remember when you read statements like this you are most often missing the actual exact context. You are taking these statements and trying to make them apply universally.

Next, yes, there is a difference between being aware and being conscious - you can be aware in both conscious and subconscious states.

Most importantly, you must remember where you are at and keep what you read here with this in mind. 95% of everything in the s forum is from guys that are MAGICIANS that only want to learn something that looks like or resembles hypnosis. Perhaps pseudo hypnosis. Maybe a few will learn actual hypnosis basics, but that is it. They do not really or seriously want to learn the art and science of actual hypnosis. Then to take that a step farther there are some guys that pop in here from time to time that have marketed "hypnosis" for magicians, disc jockeys and comedians in the promise of a greater payday and better, more fun audiences. Becoming a more prestigious performer. Many of these materials are little more than attempting to pass off basic or simple suggestibility tests as real hypnosis. That's why there is such a big deal about getting someone's hand struck to the table around here. They have bought into this marketing attempt hook, line and sinker and somehow believe it IS hypnosis and worse yet that THEY are Hypnotists!

So take what you read here with a grain of salt if you do not know the member and their background, experience, and/or the proper context of the information being offered.

I think you can count the number of real working professional hypnotists here on your two hands and still have fingers left over, maybe on only one hand.

Again, this was my entre point originally - you can not rely on what you read or find on the internet. It will drive you crazy with stuff being presented ac real or factual information when it is not. Stop reading!

Learn hypnosis properly and professionally. Get rid of all the noise and deal in facts and realities from experienced professionals - not magicians, arm-chair hypnotists or theorists, or wannabees. There used to be a kid here that ran a podcast that regularly offered some of the worst information I have ever seen and had some of the most uncredible guests in the business. Yet he himself never did a stage show and only experienced very casually and limited with street or ambush hypnosis. I saw him once here on Freemont street and it was a joke. No credibility, no industry experience and no actual working professional experience. Just a mic, his own computer, and probably an attendee ticket to Hypnothoughts and he felt he was able to speak authoritatively on hypnosis. It is crazy, yet that is what most are here on online.

Be careful who and what you listen to. All information and insight is not created equally.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:

Do you tour or do you have a home venue?

In reading Danny's posts, it sounds like he has 'home venues' in which he is booked for weeks/months on end and in areas that I don't believe I would be able to vacation to.

I know there are shows in Vegas, but that is a bit out of reach for me also. I'm not a big city person.


I have seen hypno shows by some of the street-to-stage persons in my area over the years and was underwhelmed with the experience.



I agree, I am underwhelmed with most hypnosis shows these days myself.

Do I do not have a home venue or residency. I am on the road working 40-43 weeks a year, I just returned from my annual Spring Tour which started back in March and concluded just a couple of weeks ago.

For many years I worked the school market (still do) and then when schools would end in May/June I would go right into the fairs and festival market through the summer and into September, and then it was back to schools again. This kept me working year-round, Years ago I too worked comedy clubs and resorts like Danny, but have become very prominent in my market now taking much of the summer off to focus more on my entertainment business coaching, consulting, and training clients and students, and also producing other shows and tours of mine and my company's.

I am very fortunate as I am also an agency owner of several agencies, a talent broker and producer, so I get promotional materials and invited to see many other hypnotists shows (that are seeking representation consideration from us) and I must tell you it is the worst I have ever seen. Seriously. Youtube, the internet, and the weekend training events by unqualified instructors have created a generation of terrible hypnotists and terrible performers (actually most are not even performers or entertainers). So this allows me to keep a good pulse on who and what is out there, working where, for how much, and a host of other particulars. I probably see more hypnotists than most. So when I post here it is always definitely from and industry perspective and experience, based and far more information than most here.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19734 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I tried. I'm done.

Regardless of what you think a hypnotist can't make you do anything against your will.

So for all your experience of being an audience member and reading "research papers" on Google you want to argue. You claim not wanting to argue yet itis exactly what you are doing. You have preconceived notions and are pushing those.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ahimsa42
View Profile
New user
24 Posts

Profile of ahimsa42
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
I tried. I'm done.

Regardless of what you think a hypnotist can't make you do anything against your will.

So for all your experience of being an audience member and reading "research papers" on Google you want to argue. You claim not wanting to argue yet itis exactly what you are doing. You have preconceived notions and are pushing those.


that's just it-it's not me who is claiming this but other hypnotists-some on this very forum who supposedly have a great deal of practical experience. I found a copy of "Reality is Plastic" online and along with several stories about hypnotizing unsuspecting strangers to steal products & drinks from them for free, he also states this:

"It is often stated by hypnotists that you cannot make people do things they normally would not do and certainly cannot make people do things against their morals and ethics. I absolutely disagree."

later in the section it states "When hypnotizing you are not making people do things against their will but are instead bending their reality so that the subject's will has an interest in following your direction"

to me, this is just semantics and means the exact same thing-i.e. I am not making them do things against their will, instead I am controlling their will so they want to do what I say.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19734 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
OK here is always my test. I offered this to Anthony years ago and somehow he managed to not want to do it.

I (And probably Mindpro and a few others.) will put $10,000 in an escrow account, and so will Anthony.

IF he can come to MY neighborhood and do those things with people I point to and they do what he claims he gets all the money. No talking to them or knowing who I'm going to point to. Why would he not accept this sort of thing if what he claims is true is true? OH I KNOW! Because it is crapola and nothing but a way to sell nonsense to unsuspecting dupes.

THE SECOND you tell someone to steal something under "hypnosis" (A laughable term.) if they are not PREDISPOSED to steal stuff for you in the first place they will say NO and not do it. PERIOD. If you have a live person who can take my challenge please have them step forward.

This is not the Jedi mind trick. This is not mind control. IT IS SUGGESTION. The idea that you think someone can control the mind of another or bend their reality to make them do stupid things like steal is hilariously ignorant. It is flights of fancy. It is bunk. It is rubbish and urban legends. Ask Anthony how many people he misses with before he gets that type of video.

And it IS YOU who is arguing. You are just using proxy folks to make your statements of what you believe. You're trolling. It is just that it is fairly entertaining is all.

So again bring forth one of the people who believe it is mind control for the challenge. Let's get it done. If it is so easy, if it is just so easy then why do you not see it done every day? My lord how silly.

And maybe, just MAYBE if he was right, HE WOULD NOT HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS! http://headhacking.com/
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9528 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I completely agree and THIS is exactly the type of stuff I've been referring to - Hypnosis for magicians - making a huge deal about getting your hand stuck to something and claiming it to be hypnosis. This is like somehow believing that talking about racing to a NASCAR racing professional when you are someone that only has driven a go-cart or has ridden the race car out in front of a Kmart for a quarter are somehow you beliving they are the same thing. It's laughable.

I remember the challenge some here offered and how it was quickly discarded.

When you are ready to talk about real-world hypnosis let me know. As I told you and warned you from the beginning of this thread - stop reading and buying into the crap, stop watching youtube videos from wannabees, and "hypnosis" products for magicians, and deal in real professional training of actual experienced working hypnosis professionals.

I also know a fellow hypnotist that recently burned big time from another one of these things types of nonsense trainings and material from Tripp and his "hypnosis without a trance". None of this or their related theories have a place on a quality, professional stage hypnosis business. The only suggestion they have accomplished is getting you and others to believe and buy this nonsense.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Brand new here & confused (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.26 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL