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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-11 22:09, Big Daddy Cool wrote: Yes, this has been a great thread...one that I have truly enjoyed. I still can't stand dancing, but I now understand some people's points of views a little bit better. That is the purpose of these forums. Now, if you will excuse me, I must go chill out as the dancer chick suggested. WHERE'S MY PAXIL!!!?
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Bob Sanders 1945 - 2024 Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Dance and magic are not the same thing. However, both are entertainment. As the former owner for many years of a booking and personal management agency, I disagree 100% with the statement that audiences don't or won’t pay for dance. Get real! After stage props, it is the first thing to add to change the price category of the act for a stage show.
I also agree that the category of audience can make having dance in the act impossible. If your show is a Gambler at the Card Table Routine and you only play fraternity houses, dance isn't going to help. Your stage is the size of a tabletop. If you are working birthday parties in the home, your stage is only about 4x6 feet. If you are doing TV, reality is that you are working in 8x12 feet to something much less. Two camera sessions allow more latitude than one-camera sessions. I have done TV commercials in which nothing showed from the shoulders up or the elbows down. Nobody's feet moved! The music was added later. However, if you are really doing a show on a stage even 60x20 feet, you need to fill the stage with activity. The guy who only uses a small area in front of the curtain is usually called the announcer or master of ceremonies. (The big bucks are seldom there.) If he is the whole show and pleasing the paying audience, odds are he’s doing more than magic! That might not be dance, but it is acting, singing, juggling, etc. It isn’t just magic tricks! A professional routine extends well beyond magic tricks. Dance makes sense in stage magic because it helps make the show dynamic. It adds motion, color, size, focus and communication to the show. Dancers set the scene for a fantasy to take place. Watch a real pro work and see what is really going on. The example used earlier in this thread was Johnny and Pam Thompson. They are a great example. It is not the number of people on stage; it is the total use of the stage. Johnny sets up shop on the far side of the stage from Pam. She has to travel nearly the full width of the stage. Count the number of times Pam travels all the way from her wing to Johnny and back. Did you even notice that at times she appears to be transporting nothing that was used! Watch how they share the stage to create the routine without saying a word. (Remember that much of the audience really isn’t listening! Some can’t!) Notice how they use music to keep the routine on schedule. Actually they both dance! How long does it take to learn Johnny’s lines? (There are none!) But how long to learn his act? Now, can you admit that the magic tricks are the easy part? It is much easier to keep score in a ball game than to play. Stage magic is not table magic. It requires that multiple people be coordinated. Music is the clock and dance helps insure that coordination. It is not a one-truck fire department! Coordination is essential. Well what about nightclub magic? Try it! In my forty-three years, I have worked nightclubs that were sometimes as bad as in-home birthday parties when it comes to space. I have worked hotels where there was a stage but the performer worked his lights with foot switches himself. I have worked hotels where the stage was plywood on milk crates. Dance just isn’t in the budget there. I have also worked nightclubs and hotels where the stage was very elaborate, large, and the audience watched the act. Drunks were escorted out. The hotel had staff dancers and musicians to be used in the act. We are talking about the league not the ball used. It really depends on the audience served. Not all can support or appreciate dancers. But is teaching a cannibal to eat with a fork progress? I was also a stage show musician in the days of Go-Go dancers. We used to wonder if they were deaf. We played music and they danced anyway! It has to fit. If clientele watches the show, and the scope of the show is grand enough to support dancers, please give me dancers. Bob The Amazed Wiz Magic By Sander |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
I won't pay for dance.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Bob Sanders 1945 - 2024 Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
That's certainly your right. Many more won't pay for magic! And that is their right. We are grateful for those who will.
Booking agents work on a commission. They could care less who gets booked. It's all for sale. Really it's the talent buyer's decision. Magicians, dancers, singers, etc. are just inventory. The market puts us in our places very rapidly and keeps score. A hobbyist doesn't have to play by the rules. A professional has no choice. The market will make him a hobbyist. In the years that I owned an agency, I saw a lot of "artists" who made change and drove delivery trucks to support their hobby. It's a choice. Bob Magic By Sander |
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magicsam Regular user 117 Posts |
Thanks for the helpful post. What type of dance would you classify Frank Sinatra, Fred Astaire, James Dimmare as?
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Dayanara New user Michigan 64 Posts |
Now I haven't seen a lot of their stuff, but I'm told Fred is fairly famous for ballroom...Not something I am well-versed in, let me tell you.
As for the essay, BDC, it's coming! |
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Magic Grandpa New user 45 Posts |
Magic Grandpa Here:
I'll 2nd what Astinus says about dance - can't stand it, especially all that modern jibbery doo. The only things a detest more are ice dancing, WNBA, and rap music. One exception is the Tango. Love to do it with the dames. But watching those grinning ultra-perky folks on stage is the worst.
I'm old as dirt; that's why there's no picture of me.
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
Thanks for the laughs Grandpa. Couldn't have worded it any better myself.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts |
Sinatra didn't dance. And Dimmare looks like Astaire, but I don't know how much he actually dances.
Fred Astaire was one of the original fusion artists. He combined ballroom dance, tap, jazz and swing in a style all his own. |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
I do have to agree....Fred Astaire had some talent.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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PROOF New user 6 Posts |
Thanks everyone. This has to be one of the most entertaining threads I've read in the Café...
Poor Dayanara was just trying to offer some of her insight. Good looking out, D. Some of these haters need a good dose of class. Dance is an artform not easily appreciated by people who don't understand it's difficulty and precision. Astinus, you were just expressing your disdain for an artform that you obviously can't and won't appreciate. I get it. Good on you for taking a stand. Bad on you for taking such an asinine approach. BDC, amshake, and Red... don't take offense by one small opinion. Astinus is an instigator, and a good one at that. The guy likes comedy and closeup. It would seem that that would suggest the breadth of his understanding. Look at it this way... keep him out of the shows that contain dancing. That leaves a seat open for someone who really cares. Proof |
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