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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Want To Illustrate Free Will v. Predestination? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

stempleton
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Here is a perfect illustration for those who find it difficult to wrap your head around the seemingly contradictory concepts of man's free will and predestination, or God's choosing of His elect (read Romans for details.)

It's "Chosen," a completely overpriced (IMO) card effect by Jerome Sauloup. Although considered a "new release," it is based on an old principle, and many on the café have described it as "nothing new." However, as an illustration of this gospel message it is quite powerful.

I won't describe the effect here; you can easily look up the video. But it is an open prediction, you and the volunteer independently counting down cards in his and your decks of cards until freely choosing to stop on a single card. You both have chosen the same card. You then spread the remaining cards of your decks and all the other cards are blank.

My inspiration for this effect is that, even though the volunteer has freely chosen the card, the card had previously chosen him... as illustrated by the kicker ending when all the other cards in the deck are shown blank.
bluejay17!
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Thank you so much for this. Predestination is a little mind bending...
Kingman
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Hey that is a pretty neat idea. Could definitely be worked into something pretty strong. Thanks for sharing the idea
-*-The Card Magic of Kingman-*-

I took the Pledge
Terry Holley
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I think that this could be a pretty controversial effect depending on what type of church you might be presenting this in. Free will and election is a hot topic in online discussions. Much hotter than I realized until I joined some Facebook groups that debate about it. You might not want to tread on this subject unless you talk to the church leadership! Just my 2 cents.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
tbaer
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I agree.
John Long
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With acknowledgement of Terry's concern..

I'm not "big" on these types of tricks, but I just looked at an old Penguin M demo for a "special assortment deck", and saw that it somewhat fits the idea of free choice ,and predestined.


- All cards are spread face up, and spec is given FREE CHOICE to touch any card (and it is pull out and left face up on table (lets say a 4H)
- The other cards are squared up; and turned face down, and re-spread to show that they are all blue back
- those cards are squared up (face down) and the selected card is placed face up on the face-down group
- the selected card(face up) is then turned over, and left face down on the top of the rest, and seen to be a red back card
- drop selected (red) card face down on the table, and spread the others to again show all are blue
- comment that spec could have picked any card, but he got the only red back card
- square up the rest (face down) and add the 4H (face down) to the rest of the deck (face down)
- peel off that top card and flip over (showing the face) and drop it face up onto the table, spread the main group (still face down)
- Then comment that the Spec could have picked any card, and ask what would have happened if you didn't pick the 4H?
- if you didn't pick the 4H, than it wouldn't be red; and flip it over

You could end with some comment about how things are going to work out for what ever choices we make (IF that is the emphasis you are trying to make)

I think most will be able to determine what gaff and the slights that are needed.
Again, this is not the sort of patter I would use, but it is a clever little trick.

and I hope I wrote it correctly!
John
Russo
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I've used the words from the Country song="Deck of Cards" -about a soldier found with a deck of cards in Chapel- about to be courtmartialed (?)-He explains that his deck is his prayer book and tells what each card is - I typed each explain behind each 'giant'card - Hope you understand what & how I'm talking about.
Russo
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P.s. Used the 'deck' illustration - about being judgmental. With a few personal witnesses. A good gospel effect SHOULD include a personal witness or 2-3 etc.
Russo
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Hay - where is everybody -- 6 days -- no ideas - stories - ????


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stempleton
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2019, Terry Holley wrote:
I think that this could be a pretty controversial effect depending on what type of church you might be presenting this in. Free will and election is a hot topic in online discussions. Much hotter than I realized until I joined some Facebook groups that debate about it. You might not want to tread on this subject unless you talk to the church leadership! Just my 2 cents.


Imagine me, a Calvinist, being controversial Smile
Or maybe I just read Romans.
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