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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Want To Illustrate Free Will v. Predestination? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

stempleton
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Here is a perfect illustration for those who find it difficult to wrap your head around the seemingly contradictory concepts of man's free will and predestination, or God's choosing of His elect (read Romans for details.)

It's "Chosen," a completely overpriced (IMO) card effect by Jerome Sauloup. Although considered a "new release," it is based on an old principle, and many on the café have described it as "nothing new." However, as an illustration of this gospel message it is quite powerful.

I won't describe the effect here; you can easily look up the video. But it is an open prediction, you and the volunteer independently counting down cards in his and your decks of cards until freely choosing to stop on a single card. You both have chosen the same card. You then spread the remaining cards of your decks and all the other cards are blank.

My inspiration for this effect is that, even though the volunteer has freely chosen the card, the card had previously chosen him... as illustrated by the kicker ending when all the other cards in the deck are shown blank.
bluejay17!
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Thank you so much for this. Predestination is a little mind bending...
Kingman
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Hey that is a pretty neat idea. Could definitely be worked into something pretty strong. Thanks for sharing the idea
-*-The Card Magic of Kingman-*-

I took the Pledge
Terry Holley
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I think that this could be a pretty controversial effect depending on what type of church you might be presenting this in. Free will and election is a hot topic in online discussions. Much hotter than I realized until I joined some Facebook groups that debate about it. You might not want to tread on this subject unless you talk to the church leadership! Just my 2 cents.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
tbaer
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I agree.
John Long
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With acknowledgement of Terry's concern..

I'm not "big" on these types of tricks, but I just looked at an old Penguin M demo for a "special assortment deck", and saw that it somewhat fits the idea of free choice ,and predestined.


- All cards are spread face up, and spec is given FREE CHOICE to touch any card (and it is pull out and left face up on table (lets say a 4H)
- The other cards are squared up; and turned face down, and re-spread to show that they are all blue back
- those cards are squared up (face down) and the selected card is placed face up on the face-down group
- the selected card(face up) is then turned over, and left face down on the top of the rest, and seen to be a red back card
- drop selected (red) card face down on the table, and spread the others to again show all are blue
- comment that spec could have picked any card, but he got the only red back card
- square up the rest (face down) and add the 4H (face down) to the rest of the deck (face down)
- peel off that top card and flip over (showing the face) and drop it face up onto the table, spread the main group (still face down)
- Then comment that the Spec could have picked any card, and ask what would have happened if you didn't pick the 4H?
- if you didn't pick the 4H, than it wouldn't be red; and flip it over

You could end with some comment about how things are going to work out for what ever choices we make (IF that is the emphasis you are trying to make)

I think most will be able to determine what gaff and the slights that are needed.
Again, this is not the sort of patter I would use, but it is a clever little trick.

and I hope I wrote it correctly!
John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
Russo
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I've used the words from the Country song="Deck of Cards" -about a soldier found with a deck of cards in Chapel- about to be courtmartialed (?)-He explains that his deck is his prayer book and tells what each card is - I typed each explain behind each 'giant'card - Hope you understand what & how I'm talking about.
Russo
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P.s. Used the 'deck' illustration - about being judgmental. With a few personal witnesses. A good gospel effect SHOULD include a personal witness or 2-3 etc.
Russo
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Hay - where is everybody -- 6 days -- no ideas - stories - ????


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stempleton
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2019, Terry Holley wrote:
I think that this could be a pretty controversial effect depending on what type of church you might be presenting this in. Free will and election is a hot topic in online discussions. Much hotter than I realized until I joined some Facebook groups that debate about it. You might not want to tread on this subject unless you talk to the church leadership! Just my 2 cents.


Imagine me, a Calvinist, being controversial Smile
Or maybe I just read Romans.
mrpiper
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While I am late to this thread, I have also been out of commission for quite a COVID while, sadly. All is better now and people are beginning to invite me back to the real world!

I LOVE to teach on the concept of predestination. Here is a SIMPLE but VERY BIG stage way to teach this concept that I have used many times with great fun and deep teaching. I hope you may enjoy it. I have posted it before on a different thread but here is the same text:

You will need a large sized Invisible Deck wrapped in wrapping paper. (I made my own with a jumbo deck and a "roughing stick"), A large balloon (I use a 12" diameter "punching ball"), a white board eraser, a large Dry Erase Board and an easel on stage, a black dry erase marker and a red one.

On the board, (mine is 24"X36") I draw a Heart and Diamond in Red at the top on the Left and a Spade and Club symbol in Black on the right. Next I vertically write AKQJ1098765432 on the left in Red under the diamond and heart, and on the right in Black under the spade and club. I say, "Since we know that God is sovereign, and since we know that He already knows who will be saved from before the foundation of the earth, how can we also have free will? God's word says "whosoever will may come" and "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." To the human mind, these can not be reconciled. Both can not be true, and yet, God's word says both ARE true. This is because His ways are greater than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts! God says we have complete free will to come to Him for salvation! Everyone! and yet He already knows who will and who will not. Here is a little experiment we can use to illustrate that we can have free will within God's sovereignty. You see here I have a large balloon ball. As the music plays, I am going to toss it to the audience to bounce around the room. When the music stops, the next person who touches the ball will be my first assistant.

I let the ball bounce around for about 10 seconds to music then my assistant is selected. I ask the assistant on stage and hand them a whiteboard eraser and instruct them to erase entirely either ALL of the Red or ALL of the Black. After they are done I ask if that was completely their choice or did someone tell them to do that? Did I have ANY influence over their choice? They of course say no. I jokingly announce, "I knew you were going to make that choice!"

Follow the same process to bring the next 3 assistants to stage. The second one erases either the Diamond or the Heart if Red remains, or they will erase either the Spade or Club if Black remains. The third assistant will erase either AKQJ or 1098765432. The fourth and final assistant will erase all of the remaining numbers or letters leaving only one so the board will be totally white except for a suit and a card. After each assistant erases their part, I look to the audience and announce, "I knew you were going to make that choice!" with a big smile.

Ask each assistant in turn the same questions about their free choice and ability to change their mind. This is the way we have the privilege to come to Jesus Christ for salvation. All are free to make their own choice, but God already knows the outcome from the very beginning! Just like, for the purposes of this illusion, I knew which card you would all work together to chose before you ever came to the stage! As you can see over there on the small table their is a large deck of cards that has been in view since the show began. Would one of you go over and bring the deck here and unwrap it from the wrapping paper for me please?

I take the unwrapped deck from the assistant and fan the deck to show the one and only reversed card to the audience (usually to gasps) and ask one of the assistants to remove that card and show it to the audience. It of course matches the card chosen freely by the combination of all four assistants randomly chosen from the audience!

I Finish by explaining that God knows the end from the beginning and we can rest in the power of His word in Romans 8:28, "All things work together for good to those who Love the Lord, who are the called according to His purpose." We can know that He has made the way for ANYONE to be saved by simply receiving the gift of Salvation from Christ our Lord. That's John 3:16, and we know that Romans 10:10 in God's word tells us that "With the heart, man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation!" God is giving you a choice this day. Will you not believe on Him and confess Him as your Lord and be saved!?
davfreeman
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Great idea. That is a great way to use an invisible deck.
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