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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » EG to EG Change (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Wravyn
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I like the looks of Mb217’s crimp change, though there is a wave of the coin, in my eyes, it looks magical.
Makaveli’s wave of the coin with a change, in my eyes, is the beginning stages of a magical sequence. It has merit. Is it a stand alone change or is it a going to be a part of a routine?

Who’s waving of the coin is being addressed? Mb’s or the OP or both?
Jonathan Townsend
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There's a simple way to test your coin change; Take out an English Penney. Announce that you're going to change the coin into real silver. Do your change. Listen to what the audience says.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Wravyn
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Quote:
On Aug 13, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
There's a simple way to test your coin change; Take out an English Penney. Announce that you're going to change the coin into real silver. Do your change. Listen to what the audience says.

Is that how you learned? Told them what you were going to do and listen to what they said?

My question was as to the coin waving... was it with both shared videos or just one?
gallagher
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"Here is a clip of something that appeared recently in Genii magazine.
Richard Kaufman, the publisher,
said there is something deep about it that fooled him badly even though he was aware of the moves used. "

http://www.worldmagiccenter.com/MAGIC2/fx4u/4fx.mp4
(A.S.)

I've often wondered,..
just 'who' it is...?
lurking behind this psuedonym..."Al Schneider". 🤔

After watching this,..
it hit me(!)....
MISTER WHIPPLE !...!

...oK Al,
I won't throw a stone,..
but a little tissue's got to be allowed(!). 🙃
gallagher

p.s.: https://youtu.be/BhspCxsYUnY
Jonathan Townsend
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Addressing any such where a sudden change on handling happens right before a sudden change in item condition. To the average viewer the former accounts for when you secretly managed the latter. Without any other context it's a justified claim of post hoc ergo proctor hoc.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Makaveli
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Quote:
On Aug 13, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
I like the looks of Mb217’s crimp change, though there is a wave of the coin, in my eyes, it looks magical.
Makaveli’s wave of the coin with a change, in my eyes, is the beginning stages of a magical sequence. It has merit. Is it a stand alone change or is it a going to be a part of a routine?

Who’s waving of the coin is being addressed? Mb’s or the OP or both?


Guess you could use it both ways, here it is as part of a transpo.

https://youtu.be/NSpHETxjrnU
Jonathan Townsend
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That handling looks basically sound. Are you doing the L'homme Masque load from EG? If so, congrats.

Focus on the silver coin you put into your closed left fingers seems inconsistent. You have both coins already in display position at the start so there's some shift of purpose - or focus required. One guy puts the openly displayed coin up into his eye like a monocle to give the setup some breathing room before doing the magic.

Keep up the good work. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Makaveli
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Yes that was L'homme Masque from EG. And thank you for the tips. Smile
Mb217
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Nice one, Mak... Smile

I did this sorta thing years ago, and covered it on my old "Short Pockets" download, "The MB Transpo." I came up with the effect to showcase what could be done with the Crimp Change as a move. I have built several effects around the basic routine as the setup...

*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
scotchrocket
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Makaveli -- don't know if your username is with regards to the author or the rapper, but either way that deserves a fist bump.

I thought the change was cool. It showed a new magician working on new stuff.

The good: It's a nice change, and when mixed into a routine like the transpo, I can see it working. Keep practicing and I think it will become something worth performing. Also, it's a great start and I get the impression you understand you're early on the journey of this sleight, which is a good takeaway and shows you're on the right track.

The bad: It's not worth performing, yet. As a couple of the OG's have mentioned, it just doesn't look like magic yet. It looks like someone with dexterity waving their hand and changing a coin with another. The hand waving is distracting. The good news is there's room for improvement! In MB's video -- looks pretty good, right? -- you can see how far he's taken it, and how far you can take it -- heck, you could take it even further! -- and how minimal the hand movement needs to be, which gives you something to work towards.

Work to refine/distill that movement down to just the movement (cut the fat) and I think you'll have a worker on your hands.

--

As an aside, if we're going to call 'overstepping boundaries', 'tawdry', or 'wallowing [one's] own judicious grieving', I'd nominate the trend of pouncing on people who've posted a practice video on the premise they aren't performing "real magic".

Lately, if a post doesn't degrade into a sea of people shilling links their own paid projects (speaking of tawdry!), they degrade into magician's calling other magicians bad magicians, who don't know, perform, or understand magic.

Not addressing anyone in particular, just wanted to redirect the convo in a productive direction -- even if it's just a tone adjustment -- rather than becoming (yet another) thread which slumps into the mediocrity of telling people their understanding of magic is wrong. We can do better.
All about borrowed coins.
Jonathan Townsend
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A little info about that transfer - the November 2008 issue of Genii Magazine came with a video disc of John Ramsay doing some coin magic, including his Cylinder and Coins routine. There's a moment right before the third coin vanishes where he uses that transfer. If you'd like to see the material performed by the guy who started that fad - there should still be stock of back issues available.

I'd excerpt a short clip (about a second) to discuss further but it's David Ben's property and courtesy of Genii Magazine so permissions required. Richard? David? Would that be okay? * Just the transfer and reveal that the coin is gone *
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mb217
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2019, Mb217 wrote:
Nice one, Mak... Smile

I did this sorta thing years ago, and covered it on my old "Short Pockets" download, "The MB Transpo." I came up with the effect to showcase what could be done with the Crimp Change as a move. I have built several effects around the basic routine as the setup...



Thanks rocket (where'ya been man?) Smile

Yes, Mak has got real potential there. I show my work here as to the journey of it all and what is possible as you point out. Like you, I'm also sure there's more out there to be realized. Smile

As to the video here, I don't think I ever put it out... But again it was done to show what could be done with the move. As I learned more & more as to it, it took on other aspects as to the very clean show of the hands and smooth action of the wave. Everything there is motivated and appears absolutely magical. I know they say it can't be done, but there you see it, and that's the way it amazingly appears to others I have done it to for years & years now. I also extended the little routine for even more magic, and added something else as an ending I came up with called the "Ringa-Dinga," for yet another wicked right turn to it all. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Makaveli
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2019, scotchrocket wrote:
Makaveli -- don't know if your username is with regards to the author or the rapper, but either way that deserves a fist bump.

I thought the change was cool. It showed a new magician working on new stuff.

The good: It's a nice change, and when mixed into a routine like the transpo, I can see it working. Keep practicing and I think it will become something worth performing. Also, it's a great start and I get the impression you understand you're early on the journey of this sleight, which is a good takeaway and shows you're on the right track.

The bad: It's not worth performing, yet. As a couple of the OG's have mentioned, it just doesn't look like magic yet. It looks like someone with dexterity waving their hand and changing a coin with another. The hand waving is distracting. The good news is there's room for improvement! In MB's video -- looks pretty good, right? -- you can see how far he's taken it, and how far you can take it -- heck, you could take it even further! -- and how minimal the hand movement needs to be, which gives you something to work towards.

Work to refine/distill that movement down to just the movement (cut the fat) and I think you'll have a worker on your hands.

--

As an aside, if we're going to call 'overstepping boundaries', 'tawdry', or 'wallowing [one's] own judicious grieving', I'd nominate the trend of pouncing on people who've posted a practice video on the premise they aren't performing "real magic".

Lately, if a post doesn't degrade into a sea of people shilling links their own paid projects (speaking of tawdry!), they degrade into magician's calling other magicians bad magicians, who don't know, perform, or understand magic.

Not addressing anyone in particular, just wanted to redirect the convo in a productive direction -- even if it's just a tone adjustment -- rather than becoming (yet another) thread which slumps into the mediocrity of telling people their understanding of magic is wrong. We can do better.


The username is in regards of both Smile

Thank you so much for your comment on all of this, It has definitely been the most valuable one so far. I agree that this isn't ready to be performed, but then again I don't even perform that much I just do a couple of tricks for friends and I really take a long time to get comfortable with something new. Other things you mentioned...I don't even want to speak about...

MB, smooth as always, hope I'll get there one day Smile
Mb217
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You will, Mak...Just stay after it my friend. You’re going the right ways. 😉👍🏽
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Al Schneider
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So here is a question.

Should I:

Not comment on anything that goes on in this forum?

Not share anything of my 60 years doing magic, lecturing at every major convention in the country, writing hundreds of books and dvds, creating a number of significant effects, etc.

Tell beginners that what they are doing is great magic.

Just shut up and go away and let MB step on everyone's toes by showing his stuff is better.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Rizzo
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Al, your experience and many routines are simply amazing and I am confident like me, MANY have gained valuable lessons and techniques from you. In all fairness, I do not believe for a minute that MB was looking to or trying to step on toes thinking his is better. Another option? Another idea? Absolutely. But one who has shared and been kind to many on here for many years, I am confident your evaluation on him is not what he ever intended here.

Shut up and go away? Absolutely not! Play in the same sand box/ why not?
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead
Al Schneider
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Makaveli

You have significantly improved.


Here are a few thoughts. In your presentation two coins were shown. Then the coins changed hands. Why? So you could do a move? Why did you wrap your fingers around a coin and held the other at the finger tips? Also, in the previous routine clip you were hiding a coin in the hand and went to great effort to show the hand MT. In the second clip you had nothing to hide. But, you didn’t show your hand MT when you could have. ???

My biggest complaint is that the performances are showing moves not magic. There should be more focus on what is going on inside the specs head.

It seems to me most here worry about the magic they see rather than what the audience sees.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Makaveli
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2019, Al Schneider wrote:
Makaveli

You have significantly improved.


Here are a few thoughts. In your presentation two coins were shown. Then the coins changed hands. Why? So you could do a move? Why did you wrap your fingers around a coin and held the other at the finger tips? Also, in the previous routine clip you were hiding a coin in the hand and went to great effort to show the hand MT. In the second clip you had nothing to hide. But, you didn’t show your hand MT when you could have. ???

My biggest complaint is that the performances are showing moves not magic. There should be more focus on what is going on inside the specs head.

It seems to me most here worry about the magic they see rather than what the audience sees.


This thread went into a completely different direction I hoped it would. First of all the first video I posted wasn't really a performance I was just showing the move so you guys could tell me if it exists or not because I came up with it literally few hours before I recorded it. It wasn't supposed to be a video for laymen but for magicians. I showed an exposed view video to Kainoa and he told me It was a combination of the De Manche change and his Edge Flip move. I guess Its my fault I didn't specify that in the original post.

It wasn't supposed to look magical but I know it has potential to be. I showed the video to a friend of mine and she asked me if I had and extra coin in my hand. The thing is we are all just sharing ideas here, enjoying magic. That's the most important thing.

As for you Al, I understand everything you're saying and the points you are making. Shut up? Go away? Hell no. I respect all of you here especially the veterans who contributed so much to the craft.
Al Schneider
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Makaveli

I reread your initial post.

I see your point of view here and understand your disappointment.

However, if you shared it with your buds, it would probably be different.
But you shared it with the world.

Ya know, that's a lot of people.

When something is published worldwide, the author cannot describe what it is.
Anyone can interpret what it means.
It also suggests that those viewing know the tech behind it.
Personally, I don't know those moves. Some I can't do.
And the people that view it have their own agenda including me.

I have submitted many posts on this forum and many here have taken them off the rails.

Well, welcome to the forum and ALL it has to offer.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
countrymaven
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Hi I appreciate most of the remarks. However, to say that you can't wave something for magic to occur, that has to be qualified. For example, with the multiplying balls between the fingers..... There are endless examples of this in classic magic. How would that look if you didn't to a slight wave during the critical move? So I think it is reasonable to wave your hand ..... as long as it seems like a move would have been impossible. Better to say "wave" your hand.

MB's crimp change is another perfect example of success of this principle . IMHO. But if you are waving your hand and it seems you are making a move happen, then yes,it just seems like cover for a move monkey. the spectators will just chalk this up to slight of hand. (intentional misspelling). because to overly depend on something that is obviously happening, with a wave, is slighty overdependent on slight of hand.

I am about to induct MB into the World Coin Magic Hall of fame. Because I will delineate his great contributions to coin magic.
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