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ryanshaw9572
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I was thinking that the magic community should do a better job respecting other magicians, keeping secrets secret, etc. Then I realized I have no idea what the “magic community” really is. There’s no way of officially entering any “magic community”. Anyone can come in, with varying levels of commitment, and leave. It would be nice to have more defined boundaries, and more structure to what the magic community actually is, I think.

By the way, this is just an idea, not an argument of mine. I’m curious to see what more experienced people have to say.
WitchDocChris
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There are actually several 'official' communities in the forms of clubs and groups worldwide. Those small groups have some ability to police the rank and file but it would be absolutely impossible to exert any serious influence or control over the magic community at large.

Maybe at one time the secrets were actually secret enough to be able to do that, but those days are long since dead and gone.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
tommy
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Nothing's impossible. If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it's that you can kill anybody.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Aug 21, 2019, tommy wrote:
Nothing's impossible. If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it's that you can kill anybody.


Does this stuff sound profound to you when you type it out?

Even if some extremely unlikely event occurred and some group managed to locate and control/destroy ALL available magic information - people would just reinvent it and we'd be right back to where we are now. There's absolutely no way to effectively control what amounts to human creativity - not all over the world.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
ryanshaw9572
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I think it was a joke
funsway
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Over the decades I have written many stories and poems on the theme of community. They are instantly applauded but never lead to changing any person's actions.
While everyone claims a "sense of community" it always someone else's responsibility for making it happen.

Now we have "social media" groups that either prove community is possible or proves it can never happen.

Yet, I know I am part of a "magic community" without any need to define it or place expectations on it.
At least, I always take time to respond to any magician who writes to me, while I do not even answer the phone most days.

Thus, I am suggesting that you can have as much community as ye desire, or none if you seek to claim it.

but, I can provide a clue as to how community can happen by magic - a story as true as you choose to make it or accept in faith.

The Ghost Train Saga

Ely, Nevada is a place ‘too far’ for most people, being about 320 miles away from each of Reno, Las Vegas and Salt Lake City. Those who sojourn there, however, can take a ride on the ‘Ghost Train’ – even today. The story surrounding its name is used by the local Chamber of Commerce in advertising – referencing ‘connectivity’, ‘power of community action’, etc. as hallmarks. In reality, support of the Train is possibly the only thing in history that the residence have ever agreed on!

Up though the Second World War, rail travel and freight was frequent throughout the this country, and Nevada was no exception. The old wood-burning locomotives were a fixture of many communities, though fuel was difficult to come by in the desert mountains. So, the Eastern company that owned the Ely railroad decided to retire these engines in the early 1950’s – and old #40 was designated to travel back East to be housed in a museum of the ‘real West’. Never happened!

Despite a barrage of messages, orders and threats, the engine never left Ely – while the locals attempted to find a way to keep this part of their heritage and local flavor. Finally, a crew of executives and workers came from the home office to seize the engine and ‘put an end to this nonsense’. The problem was – they couldn’t find the train! Each night the engine would puff merrily along some section of track or another to the delight of the residence; but it could never be found during the day! Hundreds of miles of track were searched, with the sheriff and city officials enrolled to ‘get to the bottom of this’. Citizens were brought in to testify as to what they knew – but many denied even knowing of the train’s existence at all. Posters and buttons appeared with the phrase “WHAT TRAIN?” At one station house it was discovered that there were no records of the engine at all – no schedules, fueling receipts – nothing.

One can only suspect a collusion between rail workers and the local citizens; but it is still not known exactly where the engine was hidden or how it was removed from the tracks. The officials finally gave up, writing a letter gifting the “Ghost Train” to the city if it ever showed up – and exempting it from any rail use fees. It is maintained by a team of volunteers and makes short runs every day of the year – and possibly now holds the record for ‘longest continuous operation’ of any engine.

You won’t find it in any book though – since officially, it does not exist.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Aug 21, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
... secret enough to be able to do that, but those days are long since dead and gone.
Imagine a garden reconstructed in a greenhouse, filled with wonders which won't survive in the wild.
Mass media culture can mix puzzles with mysteries, offer antique novelties as plastic toys, and dispel any left over magic as cosplay. Joseph Campbell meets the lost boys. A long time ago ...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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Quote:
On Aug 21, 2019, ryanshaw9572 wrote:
I think it was a joke



Yes: something not to be taken seriously - except by Witchdoctors.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
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Community Service is a criminal sentence. Magicians could make it a criminal offence to reveal the secrets of magic if only they could come to power and then dish out Community Service sentences to offenders. It is not impossible:

“We have a large public that is very ignorant about public affairs and very susceptible to simplistic slogans by candidates who appear out of nowhere, have no track record, but mouth appealing slogans”

― Zbigniew Brzezinski
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
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How do we compare to the guitar community?
tommy
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Well, the guitar community have had their problems with gurus and the like but I don’t think they are so infested with quacks, charlatans and witch doctors.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, tommy wrote:
so infested with quacks, charlatans and witch doctors.


I guess you have never been to an "open mike" night in the USA Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
JoshDude849
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Technology has had a horrible effect on creativity. Instead of being creative, to many people are invested in looking down at their phones instead of looking up and standing apart from the mob.

Too much groupthink.

Josh
WitchDocChris
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People have been saying that about every technological advance in history. I've seen antique prints saying that the ready availability of books would make everyone asocial and uncreative. I've seen people complaining about when pen and paper became common, saying it made people stop learning how to properly use a slate.

Creativity hasn't gone down, it just gets expressed differently as times change.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Aus
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I think it's important to define the reasons why we keep secrets because those reasons may not necessarily be the same from one magician to the next and I feel that is where the problem lays.


For instance Penn and Teller have been thrown out of the Magic Circle and the Magic Castle for revealing secrets. They view the concept of not revealing secrets as not a moral rule but a compositional rule. From their perspective if your reveal the secret to a performance of magic just after you have performed it then the whole illusion crumbles. Also they use lesser secrets as a carrot on the stick to sell a bigger secrets in other performances.

Then we have the question, if magicians are not suppose to reveal their secrets, how do you get new magicians? So once we have defined the reason for having secrets and the rule of not revealing them then how do we dispense them? Personally I feel a large proportion of that has already been taken out of our hands with the advent of youtube, magic shops, books, DVDs and other media and platforms.

So I wounder if it's even possible to put that genie back into it's bottle.

Magically

Aus
tommy
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If the audience knew the secrets then the dilemma would be no more, magicians would have put down their wands and take up the guitar or something like that.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 21, 2019, ryanshaw9572 wrote:
I was thinking that the magic community should do a better job respecting other magicians, keeping secrets secret, etc. Then I realized I have no idea what the “magic community” really is. There’s no way of officially entering any “magic community”. Anyone can come in, with varying levels of commitment, and leave. It would be nice to have more defined boundaries, and more structure to what the magic community actually is, I think.

By the way, this is just an idea, not an argument of mine. I’m curious to see what more experienced people have to say.


Sure have more defined boundaries, but what are they? I have notice that everyone wants to close the door once they are in the room. THEN it is time to worry about keeping others out. How would you have been introduced into the "magic community" had it not had such an open door policy?

How about if a guy who does magic as nothing but a hobby is not allowed in? How about only those who perform magic professionally for a living get in the room? Would that include you? If not would that boundary make you happy?

Drawing boundary lines is by definition discriminatory and leads to no good. Here is the BIG SECRET. THERE ARE NO SECRETS! Never have been. The information has always been readily available to anyone who has enough money to purchase them. Therefore by definition they are not secret. There is no club, there is no governing board that is anything but symbolic, there are no tests. NOTHING as a barrier to entry except of course if you have enough money for dues and the purchase of secrets.

What is different today? The ONLY thing that is different is that there are some yahoos who think their every idiotic utterance is worthy of being on YouTube or Facebook. Still no different than it has ever been. You want a secret? Come up with something, and don't tell ANYONE! There ya have a secret, a method you can't get busted on and something to keep to yourself.

Here is another news flash. I have been performing professionally full time for over 30 years. I am not a part of the "magic community". I went to 1 convention in that time. I am not a member of IBM or any of those things. I don't "session" (As if that is even a verb.) with other magicians. Too busy working. I will also tell you that a much larger percentage of folks than you think fall into this category. But this is because of circumstance and by choice. Magic is not my hobby. Fishing and golf are those. Not my job.

But to be intentionally discriminatory is not going to help our craft at all. Everyone is and darn well should be welcome. Because there is always someone on the other side of that boundary line that is not going to be happy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Pop Haydn
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Who makes the rules? No one. If you want a union, you can start one, but how would you control anyone who didn't join?
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 25, 2019, Pop Haydn wrote:
Who makes the rules? No one. If you want a union, you can start one, but how would you control anyone who didn't join?


Another fine point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ray Pierce
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I would hypothesize that one key ingredient for any group or "community" to survive and flourish would be shared respect. If I seen an amateur at any level that shows respect for the craft and respect for the more experienced, I well help them in any way. On the other hand, If that respect isn't there, I have no desire to give away knowledge or experience to anyone just because they perceive themselves to be a "peer".
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
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