The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Moving to large audience (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8506 Posts

Profile of funsway
Ray Pierce posted this on a Mentalism thread that might be missed by many. A must read, methinks!

"At the edge of every performance space, there is a set of scales. You must tip the scales in your favor to succeed. If you're showing a friend a close up effect, just by virtue of the fact that you know what will happen, you'll generally win. If you try showing that same effect to a dozen people at the same time, you must be better, more charismatic, maintain more control to succeed. If you're in front of 100 people, again, you must support the weight of that audience and have a level of professionalism that commands their respect and attention. Now imagine being in front of 500 people, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000... etc. You simply must be better to tip the scales in those other cases to succeed.

That's why jumping from 5 people to 500 isn't that easy. I stated out doing small shows for years. Keep in mind I have been on stage since I was 11, I turned Equity when I was 13 doing summer stock shows for 1,500 to 1,800 people so I was very comfortable on a larger stage. With Magic, I had been performing since I was around 12 but professionally, I started doing 12 - 15 minutes... 100 - 150 people, year after year, until I learned the skills to move up to larger venues and hold their attention for a longer form show. I did 25 - 30 minutes for many more years... working on reading the audience to learn how to connect more and earn their respect until I got to 45 minutes and doing corporate dates for a decade. 1,000 people was now achievable as I took the time to learn to support that audience. Eventually, I have played 5,000 to 10,000 seat arenas, (15,000 seats in Moscow) but that was after decades of systematic learning and growth.

You must master each of these building block steps before jumping into a full show. As someone told me, there is no express elevator to the top. You have to take the stairs. A full evening show isn't where you start, it's where you end up."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8345 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Ja! Dats da troooth!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Ray Pierce, hi my name is John Register thank you very much for sharing this. I feel like I have found a lost city of magic here at the Café. If I may ask how did you jump in and just do your first performance for one person I personally have not achieved the competence to do a routine for strangers yet. Also, if I may pick your brain how would you advise someone not new to magic but not sure when it's time to try to find someone to perform for?

I have stage fright? But man I sure want to reach that point where I can do it. You were 11 years old wow! I think if I had been performing from a young age I wouldn't be so nervous about it I do tricks after I can do them well for my wife and niece sometimes but I definitely want to give more to our art and maybe make a buck or two.

What was your favorite venue? Moscow? Anyhow, forgive my enthusiasm it is an honor to meet you.
Ray Pierce
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2241 Posts

Profile of Ray Pierce
Hey John! As I mentioned I was very lucky that IU started doing theater which gave me a lot of confidence in front of an audience and helped a lot. I will say that there IS a big difference between doing a stage show where you're just working with other actors and doing magic where you're typically alone on stage.

The catch 22 is that confidence comes from experience in front of an audience... but you need confidence to GET in front of an audience. For me the first thing is having an effect down so well that you don't have to think about it at all. You've worked out as many ways of it messing up as possible. When you're performing for someone, you need to be focusing on them and taking them on a journey, not the mechanics of the trick.

It helps to try out routines on friends and family but that being said... it is the time in front of real strangers that counts as an unbiased audience and those are the ones you'll learn the most from. Someone told me when you start... you need a place to be bad. That sounds weird but it just means you need a place to preform with low expectations. If something doesn't work... it's ok. Once you learn that it's ok for everything not to go prerectly... it will give you miore confidence to try it more often. Eventually it will go well more times than not! Unfortunately that is the process. Assume that something might not work and that's ok. You're not getting paid so who cares?

As to stage fright... think of it this way. You are giving them a very special gift. It is an honor for me to perform for people. I've worked to create something very special for them and I love getting to give that to them. If they like it, they smile or maybe even applaud. That is just them thanking us for giving them this present. Work to create a very special gift and then allow them to receive it. That is the best frame for magic I can think of. I love giving them the gift of wonder and amazement which is an exceptional and rich emotion. On the other hand, if my goal was just to fool them to show them how cool I thought I was... that would be selfish and come off very differently.

Ultimately it's just about creating that gift and giving it to as many people as possible. As you get better in time, the gift will have more value and people will be willing to pay for it.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey!!
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Hello Ray Pierce, thank you for this like when you put on a show I consider this you sharing your gift as well. I think it is one of the best lessons I can learn from now. I agree with you about the finding the place to be ok with messing up. when I first learned about the dl I would show off quite a bit but then I noticed the reactions were not what I expected or liked I didn't and still do not want people to be angry or feel like I have made a fool of them then with some effects I would get how did you do that? It was better than sturring up aggression but I want either stunned silence or applause because what I did was beautiful or skillful. So with that I am going to practice more and record my self more not for youtube but to see my angles and where I need more work. Thank you for your time and teaching.
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8345 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, lizzard_king wrote:
Hello Ray Pierce, thank you for this like when you put on a show I consider this you sharing your gift as well. I think it is one of the best lessons I can learn from now. I agree with you about the finding the place to be ok with messing up. when I first learned about the dl I would show off quite a bit but then I noticed the reactions were not what I expected or liked I didn't and still do not want people to be angry or feel like I have made a fool of them then with some effects I would get how did you do that? It was better than sturring up aggression but I want either stunned silence or applause because what I did was beautiful or skillful. So with that I am going to practice more and record my self more not for youtube but to see my angles and where I need more work. Thank you for your time and teaching.


Practice improves SKILLS. Rehearsal improves PERFORMANCE!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Dick Oslund thanks for the response and wisdom I do often confuse the two I am fairly good at practice and new to rehearsal. I do have a couple of performances at an old job though they were probably more tricks than performances. Are there time qualifiers I wonder how long between doing a couple of tricks and doing a show? Joking aside I admit they were just two tricks.

Boath without links though they got mixed reactions one was a genuine "oh cool!"and the other was the old "how did you do that?" I only find being caught out or the person touching things I didn't invite them to inspect worse. Though I guess straight up failing the effect upsets me a bit. I need to go do that more though I looked into busking and it's a yearly permit application with a fee of course.

But it would probably give me that extra push to go and do it. I don't know about table walking in a pub though might just be something to work out with management. Anyhow, again that totally makes since to me about practice improving skill and rehearsal improves performance.
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8345 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Hello from "up and over" ...

You can PRACTICE at any time! (while waiting for a bus, or anytime that you're not working. You can practice a specific SKILL, on vacation. or at home while watching TV!

REHEARSAL means starting with the opening of your 'act", and proceeding until the end of the act. Nowadays, you can video the whole act, and critique it at leisure.

If you don't have an "act" yet, you cam rehearse one trick!

When I was not yet a teenager, I did "shows" for my friends, When I was 13, I did a show for my dad's lodge (ladies night). It was successful, and a church mens' club booked me for an after meeting program. It was successful, too.

I had enough chutzpah (guts) to approach the principal of the local public junior high school, and asked to do a program for his students. He said, "OK. We'll charge ten cents admission. You'll get 50%, and the school will get 50%." The show went great. I made $24,00, in 40 minutes, on October 24, 1945. Grown men were working all week for that!

I became a "part time professional, that day! All thru high school, my friends were making $.50 per hour, mowing lawns. I was getting an average $12. to $15 for a 30 minute show!

In 1950, I joined the Navy (Korean War) After a few months, I was in Norfolk, Virginia (a relatively large city) and got an agent. He booked local clubs. I made enough money that I could send my Navy paycheck home to the bank, for the next 3 1/2 years!

Rehearsal was a big factor!

After the Navy, and college, I auditioned for a school assembly agency and, for 50 years, I was never out of work.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Quote:
On Aug 29, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
Hello from "up and over" ...

You can PRACTICE at any time! (while waiting for a bus, or anytime that you're not working. You can practice a specific SKILL, on vacation. or at home while watching TV!

REHEARSAL means starting with the opening of your 'act", and proceeding until the end of the act. Nowadays, you can video the whole act, and critique it at leisure.

If you don't have an "act" yet, you cam rehearse one trick!

When I was not yet a teenager, I did "shows" for my friends, When I was 13, I did a show for my dad's lodge (ladies night). It was successful, and a church mens' club booked me for an after meeting program. It was successful, too.

I had enough chutzpah (guts) to approach the principal of the local public junior high school, and asked to do a program for his students. He said, "OK. We'll charge ten cents admission. You'll get 50%, and the school will get 50%." The show went great. I made $24,00, in 40 minutes, on October 24, 1945. Grown men were working all week for that!

I became a "part time professional, that day! All thru high school, my friends were making $.50 per hour, mowing lawns. I was getting an average $12. to $15 for a 30 minute show!

In 1950, I joined the Navy (Korean War) After a few months, I was in Norfolk, Virginia (a relatively large city) and got an agent. He booked local clubs. I made enough money that I could send my Navy paycheck home to the bank, for the next 3 1/2 years!

Rehearsal was a big factor!

After the Navy, and college, I auditioned for a school assembly agency and, for 50 years, I was never out of work.
Thank you, Dick Oslund for the reply and what an amazing amount of information I appreciate magicians like you that have the heart to help amatures like myself with your lesson here on rehearsal. Also what cool stories you have shared with me. I hope they all still bring a smile to your face man. Maybe one day I can also have stories to tell about good shows or gigs I have done but until then its practice, rehearsal, and repeat. I will just trust the process of it until I have the confidence that its show worthy. My productions need lots of work I am working on a one coin routine by an amazing magician who was once here Tim Feher. then I want to mix things up and change all the patter so it is mine and of course credit him. cheers M8. Have a great weekend, from a USA expat/magician downunder.
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8345 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Old Chinese proverb: "The journey of a thousand miles, begins with the first step."

PROGRESS is the NEXT 999 miles!!!

J. B. BOBO and I once estimated that we each had done about 20,000 shows.

Too many magician "wannabees" think that they can "buy" tricks, and "that's all it takes". May I suggest that you don't fall into that "trap".

My first mentor, an old pro, died young (47) I "inherited" the original TARBELL CORRESPONDENCE COURSE. I STUDIED IT! (The patter and presentations as written, were almost archaic, BUT, I LEARNED PRINCIPLES, that I've used all my life. TARBELL has been reprinted, since, in 7 volumes, each $20.00! Postage to Australia would be astronomical!

Mark Wilson several years ago, published the MARK WILSON COMPLETE COURSE IN MAGIC. It's a "condensed" version of TARBELL. The illustrations are sequential (makes learning "moves" easier.) I think used copies are selling for $15.00 to $20,00. Postage would probably run about $30.00. (Not "cheap", but cheaper than "buying" tricks.

You can't BUY TRICKS!!!! (Tricks, somewhat like music, only "exist" while they are being performed, You CAN buy PROPS, with which you can perform TRICKS.

Beginners who read good books, learn how to use "generic" PROPS (MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE). PM me, I'm 87, and slowly disposing of my library.

By "generic", I mean rope, handkerchiefs, cards, coins, balls, ETC., which can be bought in hardware and toy stores.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Hi Dick Oslund I have bought the Tarbell in pdf form and have a Bobo modern coin magic book both which I will study harder and restart the Tarbell books but I heard of an excellent book besides MARK WILSON COMPLETE COURSE IN MAGIC also I own,
but the book I hear is really great is The Road Scholar hmmm...

you ever hear of that one Mr.Oslund :0] I really appreciate your time sir in your response. It blows my mind I have spoken to true wizzards.
cheers - John
Jonmaddgician
View Profile
New user
Perth, Western Australia
13 Posts

Profile of Jonmaddgician
This thread is a great piece of advice!

On a journey of little steps, if you're struggling to find opportunities for a slightly bigger stage or audience, perhaps try out your local Fringe festival? There's usually heaps of variety shows who have 5, 10 or 20 minute spots to fill. Otherwise, perhaps a comedy lounge or open mic might also be another way to go, if you have the nerves or skin for it. Smile
lizzard_king
View Profile
New user
Victoria Australia
13 Posts

Profile of lizzard_king
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2019, Jonmaddgician wrote:
This thread is a great piece of advice!

On a journey of little steps, if you're struggling to find opportunities for a slightly bigger stage or audience, perhaps try out your local Fringe festival? There's usually heaps of variety shows who have 5, 10 or 20 minute spots to fill. Otherwise, perhaps a comedy lounge or open mic might also be another way to go, if you have the nerves or skin for it. Smile


Thank you Jonmaddgician I have seen some open mic and a talent searches specifically with magicians mentioned. However I haven't worked out what I would want to preform I know I have been enjoying a one coin but the spot is for 3 – 5 minutes, and I am not sure how or what would go with a one coin or if the one coin routine should be my closing effect.

I have stage fright for sure but in honesty I am not rehearsed enough I don't know my time frame of the tricks. I practice the slights, palms, transfers, and clips etc. I even have a prattle for it however, I haven't recorded it enough to see my flashes and angles.

I am definitely a work in progress. It is really cool to speak with other magi as I don't have reliable transportation to go out of my city to Melbourne where the magician clubs are being held to join so this is my magician's club I recon.

Cheers ->John
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8345 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Yeah John, that Road Scholar book is still selling in Asia. Europe, Australia, and, even in North America!! (I wrote it, but, haven't had time to read it, yet...)

Don't be in a hurry! If you read, and STUDY, you'll "make it". (FESTINA LENTE! --that's Latin for "make haste, slowly! Pablo Casals, was a world class musician. At 90. he practiced daily. Someone asked him, 'Why are you practicing every day?" Pablo replied, "I think I am getting better."

Although, I studied Tarbell, as a youth, and, still refer to it, the Mark Wilson "Classic Course" illustrations are SEQUENTIAL. WHICH MAKES LEARNING "MOVES" EASIER.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Moving to large audience (10 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.3 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL