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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Dupes ? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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warren
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I wasn't sure where to post this but if it needs moving the mods will step in.

Just wondering how many of you keep a duplicate card in your regular deck for transpositions etc ? By this I don't mean adding it to the deck when needed but rather just leave a duplicate in there from the get go.
Mike Powers
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John Mendoza recommended keeping a dupe in the deck all the time. I like to keep a dupe in the card case to be injected as needed. Seems to me that there's a bit of danger in keeping a dupe in the deck all the time. Two specs could select the same card or it just could get noticed in a spread etc. Four selections- the QS, 7D, 4S and 4S ouch.

Mike
ssibal
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What’s wrong with non dupe transpositions?
The Burnaby Kid
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Well, having a dupe offers two nice features. First, it eliminates a move. Second, they get to see the item in one spot immediately before seeing it in another spot ("immediately" being the key word).

That said, having a dupe means there's two big problems. First, things can't be examined (or, at least, not easily). Second, if you leverage a dupe to its greatest extent, it's hard to avoid fostering suspicion of a dupe.

I've got no dog in this particular fight. I close with the 21 Card Trick.
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Mike Powers
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I once got burned with a dupe for exactly the reason The Burnaby Kid mentioned - the transposition is so impossible that dupe comes to mind. A guy grabbed the deck and spread, looking for the dupe. It was there! Ouch.

I still do the trick, but I palm out the dupe before it comes to mind and leave the deck on the table. Now I hope someone looks for it! Haven't gotten burned on the palmed out card so far.

Mike
Carlo
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Keep the cellophane on your pack and slip the dupe back there under it Pull it out when you need it. This also replaces the ugly new-style back (on Bicycle rider back boxes) and returns it to its old-school glory.
AceOfShades
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I tend to try and avoid having dupes in the deck by default because I like to be able to have people examine the deck. If I really need a dupe for an effect, I would just ring in the extra card and then ditch it asap so it ends clean if possible. I also don't have any effects that use dupes which wouldn't be "too perfect" and arouse suspicion of a dupe, but then again I have not been looking for effects with dupes.
warren
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Thanks for everyone's input I can see that there are both pros and cons to leaving a dupe in the deck.

Perhaps another question would be if you get caught with a dupe in your deck which isn't used for the trick your doing or have done but get's spotted by the spectator what excuse would you come up with for why it's there ?
Chamberlain
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I always keep a dupe in my deck, I don't use it often but I sometimes use the classic Blaine transpo if the spectators are either drunk, its very noisy or if I need a quick trick to impress if there are a lot of people (also worked well when I was performing for a person who was deaf as it doesn't need any patter). I also use it for performing Ace in the Pocket by Darwin Ortiz but normally do this if visiting the group a second time so they'll be less suspicious.
Kimura
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I run my decks into the ground so a dupe stands out in a fresh deck like a sore thumb Smile
Tortuga
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Kimura wrote:
I run my decks into the ground so a dupe stands out in a fresh deck like a sore thumb Smile


But not if it was there all along.
Mr Salk
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Dupes are lazy magic.
.


.
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Dupes are lazy magic.


Do go on.
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, warren wrote:
Perhaps another question would be if you get caught with a dupe in your deck which isn't used for the trick your doing or have done but get's spotted by the spectator what excuse would you come up with for why it's there ?


I'd offer a refund on the gig...?

Personally, this is why I try to keep the props fair, ringing stuff in and out as need be. I suppose I could try to turn it into a trick, but I think the only effect they'd perceive is a vanish of my credibility.
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Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Dupes are lazy magic.


Do go on.


Dupes and marked-cards are the first solutions children and laymen think of for card-magic.
It's hard work to structure effects to negate those possibilities.
.


.
The Burnaby Kid
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Who knew it was such hard work being lazy? Smile
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Tortuga
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Dupes are lazy magic.


Do go on.


Dupes and marked-cards are the first solutions children and laymen think of for card-magic.
It's hard work to structure effects to negate those possibilities.


Perhaps, but if the addition of a duplicate helps to achieve an otherwise impossible effect then it is worth it. Purists abound in magic, and there is a time and place for everything, but one shouldn't eschew the use of all gimmicks and/or duplicates. Their use helps create some unbelievable illusions.
Tortuga
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As Mike Powers stated above, John Mendoza has a duplicate in all of his decks when performing. He discussed this in his Book of John. He typically uses a Nine of Hearts or Diamonds, I believe. Yes, there is a possibility of both 9s being shown at the same time, but it is going to be unlikely. Someone way better at math can tell us what the odds are that two people would each choose the 9s, but I'll bet it is also highly unlikely.

As most of us know, unless you draw attention to things, most spectators give the cards little regard. There are always going to be outliers like the grabby spectator that Mike P. encountered, but thankfully those people are fairly rare. Never had it happen to me (thankfully) but if I did, I'd probably just leave him with the deck and walk away. Unless it was my last deck!
Mike Powers
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It's unlikely you'd have two specs take the dupes. The first take i.e. spec 1 takes either the 9D or the 9H is 2/52. The odds then for spec 2 are 1/51 since there are 51 cards remaining. The probability of both nines being taken is then 2/52*1/51 or 2/2651 which is 1/1326

That's a small number. It's very unlikely that you'd be so unlucky.

But I still think it's best to secretly add and then subtract the dupe for the single effect you're likely to be using it in. It's so easy to put the deck in the case or your pocket while you perform a rubber band effect etc then bring it out with dupe added. You also have the advantage of positioning the dupe in the deck before going to your pocket. So when the deck comes out you know where both dupes are without looking. I'm not leaving the dupe in the deck after using it any longer. Once burned, twice shy!

Mike
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Dupes are lazy magic.


Do go on.


Dupes and marked-cards are the first solutions children and laymen think of for card-magic.
It's hard work to structure effects to negate those possibilities.


If a trick presents one easy solution, such as, “He used a duplicate,” then you’re performing a poorly structured trick.
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