We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Your Audience (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Magic in and of itself does not have the ability to be boring. It has to be presented. The presentation may be boring, but this is not the fault of "magic".

I think the real problem is who is presenting it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9389 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Aug 29, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

if I'm bored it's very difficult to put on a good show - because I don't care about the material. When I perform the material I care about it shines through - because it's concerning things that I am genuinely, thoroughly obsessed with. Stuff I've been reading about and learning about since I was a kid.


I must say I am a bit surprised to hear this from you. This is more of a perspective of a beginner or newer performer. I thought you'd been doing this for some time now (perhaps I'm wrong). In the beginning, your concern about the material and artistry tends to be more personal of importance. When performing professionally it, as Danny said, is all about the audience and client. More than likely whatever you perform you will be bored with or less exciting for you, which is the nature of the regularly working professional. The key is acceptance of this or finding a pay to make it more enjoyable or exciting to yourself. This is often the difference between business and art,
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Learn the art of acting. It is right there in the word. Just act. I have heard some of the jokes and seen some of the bits thousands and thousands of times. It is fresh every night as if it was new. This is the art.

The key is making it the best experience for the audience. To center on your own boredom is mind boggling to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2172 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
I just finished reading "The Neat Review". At the end is an interview with Derren Brown. I think it is easily agreed, any personal opinions about him aside, that Brown is a successful performer. In it, he states that one of the most important things to his doing a good show and eliminating nerves, is to enjoy it.

Clearly, I am in good company.

Yes - I understand that the audience's experience and the booker's appreciation is what matters. I've said that many times, several in this very thread.

However - if I am going to present the best product possible - I have to enjoy doing it. It's entirely possible that the audience doesn't totally notice when I'm bored with the material. But I do. And my energy is affected by that knowing. In my experience the feedback I get from shows featuring the material I created from my passions far surpasses the feedback I got from 'commercial' performances.

When I do the material I enjoy, I can do it all day, every day. I never get bored of this stuff. Ever. I've been thinking about, reading about, and talking about these subjects for over thirty years. Since I was a child, barely able to read - one of the first things I read on my own was "Unsolved Mysteries". That's what I build my shows around. And when I focus on that material, I find gig opportunities popping up left and right. When I tried to be more commercial, finding gigs was a grind.

And, once more, this is -my- experience. My perspective. One little fish in a gigantic pond. If my perspective helps anyone else here - great. If not, fine, ignore me. No skin off my back - I have a seance to write and another idea to pitch to the booker.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
The_Mediocre_Gatsby
View Profile
Regular user
101 Posts

Profile of The_Mediocre_Gatsby
Well said Chris
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
I just finished reading "The Neat Review". At the end is an interview with Derren Brown. I think it is easily agreed, any personal opinions about him aside, that Brown is a successful performer. In it, he states that one of the most important things to his doing a good show and eliminating nerves, is to enjoy it.

Clearly, I am in good company.

No. Clearly you have the ability to quote mine and to find something that agrees with your own point of view when taken out of context.

I think Brown is a very successful performer. I think his live show is spectacular. I think he is as well. So lets move from this point.

What ABOUT the show does he enjoy? Is he saying he has to enjoy every effect he is doing or is he saying that he has to enjoy performance itself? I think the answer might shock you because it totally disagrees with you.

Nobody wants to present effects they find stupid or not worthwhile presenting. But people love certain things so artists do them. Singers are a classic example of it. The stories are legion of singers wanting to move away from certain songs but just can't because the audience wants to hear that song. Again your perspective about not having to worry about if you get the show or not is fairly niche and not what most performing artists strive for.

Unless you somehow plan on reworking your show every week you will fall victim to the boredom problem. As an artist who actually has to perform to eat you find pleasure in the art of performance. That is the key. Making every show special for every audience of any makeup. Then whether they are coming to you or you to them is simply not relevant. They are an audience to be entertained. You are happy simply because you are performing. Otherwise take up stamp collecting.

Good performance is less about the artist and more about the audience experience. I mean even for just pragmatic reasons eventually without an audience to support what you are doing there is no way to keep doing it. Unless you have a rich family you live off of or what not. Point is that the equation works itself out. You perform so people come to see you one way or the other. You OWE them the best you can give them. It is that simple, and that difficult. THEIR enjoyment should be paramount. Your boredom should come in dead last once the show is going. If you can not wrap your head around this concept performance might not be for you.

I GUARANTEE you that Mr. Brown gives his audience 100%. He gives it away every night without fail. He immensely enjoys performing. I don't dispute that. I dispute what you are trying to twist it into.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
danaruns
View Profile
Special user
The City of Angels
789 Posts

Profile of danaruns
I'm with you, Chris. It's very important to do material that speaks to you. And Danny likes to find a bone to gnaw on, and it looks like you're his bone, here.

Of course, it depends on what you're doing. If you're doing trade shows, then your material had better fit the client's needs. If you're doing cruise ships, your show better satisfy the booker, and that usually means satisfying a family crowd. If you want to be known as "a magician" then you should find material that suits your niche (and if you're smart you'll have one).

OTOH, if you want to be WitchDocChris, then you should perform material that speaks to you, that you love, that defines you. Our own Dan Sperry isn't getting any cruise ship gigs or children's parties, but audiences come to see him because he does what he loves. Same with Penn & Teller, Piff, the Amazing Jonathan, Rob Zabrecky, Derek DelGaudio, etc., etc. If you want to be known as "a magician," and want to maximize your hack potential, then do work that pleases the maximum number of people, no matter how boring to you. But if you want to be WitchDocChris, mount a show that you love to perform. The former has more steady potential over a wider swath of gigs. A great Gig Salad entertainer! The latter will set you apart from everyone else and give you the opportunity to become a star.

It depends on what your goals are. Something I was told over and over, "There are many rooms in the house of magic. There is a room for you."
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
You come in and diminish everything said and dismiss it with that gnaw on a bone thing? As if there is no point to what is being said? Right. Why not explain with your vast personal performance experience why exactly I'm wrong instead of just attacking me?

Seems as if there are many rooms in the house of magic, unless they disagree with the one and only Danaruns.

Funny hour you end up attacking me. While complaining about others behavior. Irony much?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2172 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
Quote:
I GUARANTEE you that Mr. Brown gives his audience 100%. He gives it away every night without fail. He immensely enjoys performing. I don't dispute that. I dispute what you are trying to twist it into.


And in the interview he points out he's certain audiences can tell when he's run down, or if he's gotten into a mechanical way of doing a routine, and he has to find ways to make it fresh every time. Recreating, not repeating.

I've said all I have to say on the subject currently and we're just going in circles. This is what works for me - I have no idea why you're so dead set on arguing what I have made clear is a personal opinion, derived from personal experience. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is "the right way".

Quote:
On Sep 4, 2019, danaruns wrote:
I'm with you, Chris. It's very important to do material that speaks to you. And Danny likes to find a bone to gnaw on, and it looks like you're his bone, here.

Of course, it depends on what you're doing. If you're doing trade shows, then your material had better fit the client's needs. If you're doing cruise ships, your show better satisfy the booker, and that usually means satisfying a family crowd. If you want to be known as "a magician" then you should find material that suits your niche (and if you're smart you'll have one).

OTOH, if you want to be WitchDocChris, then you should perform material that speaks to you, that you love, that defines you. Our own Dan Sperry isn't getting any cruise ship gigs or children's parties, but audiences come to see him because he does what he loves. Same with Penn & Teller, Piff, the Amazing Jonathan, Rob Zabrecky, Derek DelGaudio, etc., etc. If you want to be known as "a magician," and want to maximize your hack potential, then do work that pleases the maximum number of people, no matter how boring to you. But if you want to be WitchDocChris, mount a show that you love to perform. The former has more steady potential over a wider swath of gigs. A great Gig Salad entertainer! The latter will set you apart from everyone else and give you the opportunity to become a star.

It depends on what your goals are. Something I was told over and over, "There are many rooms in the house of magic. There is a room for you."


Exactly. I have no desire to be like anyone else. Yes, I miss out on some gigs because of my style of performance and being picky about venues and such. I'm OK with that, it works for me.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Before you go one point. Please indulge me and respond.

The point of view you are speaking from does not include having to do shows to make money. (I pass no judgement on this, and actually think it is the smartest way to be a performer so don't misunderstand my point please.)

The reason I am a dog on a bone as our friend wants to derisively put it is when someone follows that advice and does NEED to make money it will take them down a pointless road and make the journey very difficult. While your position is not having to make money and I respect that, I should think you would also respect the view when people must make money.

Contrary to what Dana wants to imply they're are LOTS of guys out there who are not hacks or GigMasters acts who do make quite a bit of money and are very original.

It seems as if some like to pass judgement on all based on what limited they have seen. This is just not the case and I'll tell you that hacks making lots of money is the exception not the rule.

Don't be like anyone else. I've never once encouraged such a behavior. It is a false equivalency. Or a straw man I'm not sure. All I'm trying to say is you have a tendency to paint with a very wide brush things you simply have not seen. You don't want it done to you, so doing it to others seems unfair.

I in no way encourage you to be like anyone but you. Never have and if this is what you are taking from what I've written I need to work on my writing.

At some point you end up missing out on gigs no matter what your style is. I never have done family or kids shows. I don't do one night events or corporate gigs. Not for me. Never was or will be. I miss out on them sinply by being me. It is no different.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2172 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
Very well, I'll indulge you.

I have specifically said: this is my personal experience and the most successful strategy I've employed. I never said this was a path to make money. I said that I believe either path the OP mentioned could be successful but both will require a lot of work. The closest I gave to a 'business strategy' was: "Develop the reputation, network, and build word of mouth".

I have repeatedly emphasized that this is my personal experience.

Though, in point of fact, I actually do make more money this way. The shows where I perform the material I find most interesting, are the ones that get me more gigs, and more money, as well as better audience responses, than when I'm attempting to be commercial. Which might be irony, or may just show that I'm bad at being generally commercial.

I've heard a phrase tossed around a few times: Niche to get rich. For me, this has been accurate.

So. This is what works for me. It may not work for others. It's up to each person to develop the strategy that works best for them. This is just one perspective in many.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19604 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Thank you for indulging. Seriously.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Once inspired by a subject, it is an artist’s hope that he and we will be enchanted by the piece created. So it is about both the artist and his audience.

I still hold that the magic is boring. A performance of Our Magic is not simply a story of two sides but is a story two diametrically opposite sides. It is because the two sides are opposites that when the two are balanced it results in a di-lemma. The two sides are called Entertainment and Magic. The audience goes along with the Entertainment because it is fiction. The audience questions the Magic because it is fact in effect. That which is known to be fiction cannot be fact but there it is! That is the di-lemma the two balanced opposites of Our Magic. The opposite of Entertaining is Boring. "Will some one now kindly see that there are no more Queens in the deck."
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Your Audience (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.21 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL