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TomB
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The reactions to the original poster, on that thread, might serve as a guide in talking to someone who asked the same question as the original poster here. I doubt he learned much about the mentalism wars and the legitimate theory behind them, but he received a lot of practical advice on what to pursue and how to pursue


Lots of good advice there to teach yourself the mentalism tricks. And yes, they used the word trick without getting their head cut off. Maybe not all mentalists are elitist, maybe those are just magicians helping magicians.

I guess I am exploring Mindpro's elitist attitude and when mentalists decided to break from being called magicians. Clearly, mind readers were perfectly happy being called magicians in the past. From what I can tell, and I may be wrong, this break happened during the 1970s. The mentalist sentiments are if you perform physical effects, then your credibility of mental effects is tainted. I disagree with that, however, I can understand that being a master of a few tricks can be better than being mediocre at many. I certainly understand how you do not want mental magic to be demonstrated poorly, which would hurt mentalism.

I would argue most mind reading has pre-show. With that said, I am positive in some cases it is not needed. For instance, if I say I can read your mind, and then tell you to think of a word and repeat the word in your head in hope I can read your mind, then actually succeed, it is still a magic trick. It's a different skillset, it might not even be something everyone can do, but it's a magic trick, nevertheless.

The fact is mentalists rely on misdirection and all the principles of magic. It does not matter if its Lior Suchard, Derren Brown, Colin Cloud, Frederic Da Silva, the Amazing Kreskin, or Professor Marvel from the Wizard of Oz.
TomB
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Http://tampabayskeptics.org/Kreskin.html
The World's Foremost Mentalist, Kreskin in the early 1992 is quoted here that "mentalist are not magicians". I would argue his popularity was peaked in the 1970s and my working theory is he created this mantra back then. I am still looking for more publicly available information to substantiate this claim. To the mentalists, if you disagree, then please add to the discussion with documented proof of the mantra "mentalist are not magicians" before the Amazing Kreskin.

I am suggesting the Amazing Kreskin is the modern day father of mentalism, just as Robert Houdin is the father of modern magic.

We know that today's mentalists ALL copy the Amazing Kreskins routine. We also know the Amazing Kreskin routine is taken from the Great Dunninger, a highly respected magician from the 1940s and 1950s.

I am a bit surprised to see the lack of respect to Amazing Kreskin. Why have the mentalists not mentioned this living legend?

If mentalists want to deny their magician roots, then they are imitation magicians. I would much rather they come to their senses, and realize they are specialized magicians mastering mental effects. What is wrong with saying that? Find a niche and get rich. "What's the difference between [having the title] an illusionist and a magician, about 15 grand" - David Copperfield early in his career.

We all know master mentalist Lior Suchard uses pre-show and magic gimmicks to do mental magic. Are there mentalists in this forum that are as successful as Lior?

And I thank Minpro for his elitist views. He sent me down a dark tunnel of mentalism history.
funsway
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I suggest you search the Café for statements about Ormand McGill. Here is an excerpt from 2015.

"He believed that ALL performers should engage in both.

we can look to a performer like Ormand McGill to see how conjuring and “psychic magic” can be combined. His book on Psychic Magic is based on articles from 1937 and republished many times since – even 2008. He combined conjury with psychic magic in his shows with great success and encouraged all magicians to do likewise. In his post WWII USO performances, however, on the advice of his booking agent (Arnold Furst) he presented only conjury before the intermission and “mentalism” after words, believing that the former prepared the audience of the later mental demonstrations. He noted, “there is wish-fulfillment here; an underlying hope that somewhere deep within the mind there may be some mysterious powers that will in some measurable help in the mastery of countless problems that constantly perplex in the hazardous art of living.”

It is easy today to say what he did was “mental magic” rather than “pure mentalism,” but demonstrated that a performer can satisfy both those in an audience seeking to be deceived and those aspiring to paranormal abilities. His teaching of this material was based on a belief that a “magician” is the best person to support the paranormal abilities of humans in contrast, saying, “I have demonstrated how physical laws can apparently be defied for your amusement. Now we shift to demonstrations that the human mind is capable of many things generally considered impossible.” Thus, under the guise of “entertainment” people can be encouraged to experiment along the lines of personal genuine psychic powers. Taking this approach there is not ethical conflict."

He notes that 'Psychic Magic' is “Magic portraying Magic.” and “It is in the simulation of those supernatural forces that Psychic Magic has its origin, and the more perfect the simulation, the more perfect the presentation.”

“So, we will pursue in our studies as a matter of the production of genuine psychic occurrence together with the simulated psychic occurrence – for it is in the skillful blending of the pseudo with the authentic, that is found the real basis for Psychic Magic’s rightful place in the art of entertainment.”
......

So, I do not know what you mean by, "modern mentalism," but just that Kreskin is not the father.

Yes, the term "psychic" got mangled in another fiction. and "back then" MindPro commented on the use of both forms of the Mystic Arts, only suggesting that "can" and "should" are separate issues. He did not argue against the entertainment power/value of combining both approaches, just that most performers cannot pull it off successfully. I agree. Even mixing in what is now considered 'mental magic' can confuse the audience - depending on their expectations. It should not be a marriage, but can be a brother-sister act - with the mental based effects coming last, preferably after an intermission. But, how does one know the expectations of the audience, or best educate them in creating conditions under which magic (any form) is possible? For me, that is a more important question than haggling over 'insider terms' of little concern for an audience.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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funsway
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By way of demonstrating that not all mental-based demonstrations involve 'pre-show' or 'tricks' or 'deception',
I offer my eBook "Close Call' free for the asking at eversway@yahoo.com

It can be highly entertaining, has everyone talking afterwards, and would be considered as mentalism by most, but magical by all.
It involves a little know (secret?) ability that all humans have. The only requirement is "knowing" one can do it. That is where the performer comes in.

Yes, it requires presentation skills and some 'crowd control' - I did it first when 17 years old for a university psychology class. No big deal.

I next did it at a magic convention where Arnold Furst applauded but cautioned against combining it with hypnotism in any show.

So, it might meet MindPro's limited construct. No matter. Its use does not make the performer special - just profound.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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WitchDocChris
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The fact is mentalists rely on misdirection and all the principles of magic.


Wrong. Demonstrably so.

Where are you getting your so-called facts?

I repeat, again, mentalism does not require deception. So palms, switches, ditches, etc. are not necessary.

I think the only skill that is required by both mentalism and magic is showmanship (by which I mean, the ability to make the performance interesting and engaging).
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Mindpro
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On Sep 10, 2019, TomB wrote:
I guess I am exploring Mindpro's elitist attitude and when mentalists decided to break from being called magicians. Clearly, mind readers were perfectly happy being called magicians in the past.


Of course, these are not facts but rather, once again or should I say still, his very limited options based on lack of knowledge.

Like in the quote above he still isn't getting the performers and talents we are talking about - NEVER were they magicians or have they ever had anything to do with magic or magicians! As you stated they were around log before magic created their own definition based on the fake duplication of these real talents.

Same for his blatantly incorrect (opinion) views on preshow. He has no idea what he's talking about.

I believe he is now deliberately being ignorant and flaming, and not even trying to understand after all that has been presented to him on a silver platter.

As long he keeps seeing and researching things through magician's mindsets, eyes, and resources, he will only always come up with the same limited perspective, which again - wasn't that the point in the first place?

I've gotten many messages and PMs from those that have gotten it, been enlighted, understood, and appreciate the information and points we've provided in this thread. I'm glad some understand, took the time to look beyond their limited perspectives, got the takeaway and recognize the greater picture being referenced.
WitchDocChris
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Also, and this is just me being a bit petty I admit, I answered the OP's question on the first page - both with suggestions on a path and suggested reading. However, a quick skimming reminds me that TomB has only attempted to defend his opinion-presented-as-fact and offered no suggestions to help the OP at all.

Which means I've made more effort to be helpful than all those posts simply defending the inaccurate definitions.
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Ravenspur
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This thread should be renamed "Is It Soon Enough for Disagreements About the Term "Mentalism'?" Seriously, my freakin' head is spinning.

I'm fine with mentalists differentiating themselves to mental magicians and mental magic. There's an important distinction to be made. That, I now understand. But for better or worse, the term "mentalism" is now used to refer to "mental magic," and it's not going to change.

Mindpro, if you didn't literally blame magicians for capturing the term and fall back on ad hominem attacks for defense, you would be a lot more persuasive. It's off-putting and silly, but it's more importantly, fruitless. Even if it were possible that you could "steal" a word and misuse it, usage doesn't change that way. Large numbers of people have to buy into it. Generations of elementary school teachers, for example, have insisted that students must say, "May I go to the bathroom?" Those generations have failed. "May I go to the bathroom?" as well as the subjunctive mood itself has essentially disappeared from the English language. They are known, but not commonly used.

At this point, it would be easier to generate a new term for what you do than to reappropriate it from common use in magic.
Mindpro
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I appreciate your concern but it is more than just a term or definition that was being discussed. Only in magic is the definition offered here accepted. In the entertainment industry, it still is not (and never was). When a mentalist (mind reader, psychic entertainer, hypnotist, etc.) is appearing at a theater or venue the public does not go into it believing it is magic, they want to see a mentalist with true mentalist abilities.

As I said earlier as an agent, producer, and promoter I have seen industry professionals, events, and venues have irate patrons because they went expecting to see something real and got a magician pretending to do mentalism. They have been busted on America's Got Talent for doing the same - claiming to be mentalists then essentially doing metal magic much to the judges and public's dismay.

Again, it is much greater than just magic's definition, but important in other circles as well. Even when asking some that don't have a clear understanding of what to expect, they expect something actual or real, and not magic.

Imagine being a promoter and you've rented a venue ($15,000-$20,000), spent another $10,000 on advertising and promotion, not to mention the $10,000+ or more you paid for the mentalist. You would have $40,000- $50,000 into it. Now imagine if the mentalist turned out to be a guy just doing mental magic. Man the backlash and financial loss would be astounding. Again, this is how the entertainment industry thinks, acts and operates, which again is far more than it being just a definition and accepted adaptation for the magic community.

There is so much more to it, but I won't go on. It is far more than just a difference of perceptions, or on the minor level of which most magicians here are understanding. This really surprises me Ravenspur as you are an educator/teacher. If anyone, I would think you should understand the misinformation age, separating fact from opinion, and seeing a greater picture and proper understanding.

I think it is important for those in the magic community to realize and accept there is picture greater than the magic community that many of us work and operate in every day, and that there are people that do actual mental abilities for real, without tricks or any of the gimmicks, applications, and deceptions of magic. I'm not sure why this is so hard to accept and understand?

I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything. It is simply identifying some truth and facts that others here can't seem to accept and choose to deny. Denying this doesn't make it less legitimate or go away, lol. It's not about disagreeing. Disagreeing and denial are two different things.
funsway
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Trying to get a handle on your perspective, MindPro. If there is a "picture greater that the magic community," then why have you been posting
on the mentalism sites of the Café' for years? I can't grasp what you are attempting to accomplish with restricting common definitions.

You offer that a promoter spends $10,000 on advertising and promotion. What is he saying? What audience is he appealing to?
If he uses the word mentalist but can't book the likes of Dunninger or Cassidy or Banachek how does he attract an audience?
Why would there be an astonishing backlash when it seems most folks think of these performers when the word mentalist is used.

If I went to see an announced mentalist and he turned out to be a stage hypnotist I would want my money back.

How is such a show promoted to attract a large audience who understands what you mean by mentalist when you can't find many on the Café'?


No, I can't imagine such a promoter. I realize I must be missing something. Please provide a hint as to what such a promoter in the past said, printed, announced to attract the "right audience." You need not mention the name of the shadow few - just the language to attract the audience.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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TomB
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Now imagine if the mentalist turned out to be a guy just doing mental magic. 

You mean like master mentalist Lior Suchard. Because I have watched his entire show on YouTube and would believe it to be what Mindpro calls mental magic.
This is the problem with an elitist attitude. Nobody meets the elitist definition of mentalism. It is never pure enough.

Bob Cassidy fails, Lior Suchard fails, Max Maven fails, Richard Osterlind fails, Kreskin fails ect

In fact I can paraphrase any of those guys and you will find issue with it because it has my name attached to it.

You defending your opinion is not any greater then me defending mine. I have seen polished forum members state what I believe, mentalists are a specialized magicians. I was trying to find the roots of your thoughts. Funsway may be on to something with his post mentioning Arnold Furst. At least for the mantra of keeping mental magic separate from physical magic. Not sure about the mantra of "mentalists are not magicians". Nevertheless, I very much appreciate the input.

The basics for teaching include clear definitions, examples, and historical reference.

Trying to get that from you guys is like asking a blind person what the color red looks like. Although I wonder, if a deaf person was able to read lips, would that be mentalism or mental magic in your book?

I have read through this forum, and I can tell you Bob Cassidy is a pleasure to read. He does not have the disdain for magicians. In fact, there is enough material by him on the forum to see the mentalist POV. I have added his material to read, and will further generate my views after reading his material. I have said before, we are very lucky to have these legends share their ideas here. Unfortunately, once they are gone, they are gone.

To the original OP, there are easy tricks to pick up mental magic. So easy, any child can do it. Picking up Corinda 13 steps is a natural starting point. However, there is a deeper level of mental magic, that involves reading body language as well. As long as you utilize gimmicks and tricks to read minds, you won't be considered a real mentalist. You can see that your mentalist peers will have disdain for you if you practice both physical and mental magic. Even though most TV mentalists do just that. To be considered a real mentalist, you also need to convince your audience your powers are real. This most likely will involve some level of deception. I would also ask, how good is your natural intuition? Natural intuition with confidence is a large part of being a successful mentalist.
TomB
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When a mentalist (mind reader, psychic entertainer, hypnotist, etc.) is appearing at a theater or venue the public does not go into it believing it is magic, they want to see a mentalist with true mentalist abilities. 


Interesting you state psychic entertainer, rather than just psychic. By adding entertainer, it implies it's all fake and not real. Most of what I have read mentalists distance themselves from psychics and do not state they can see the future. By you including psychics as mentalists that is very revealing to me.

I get your idea, no one pays money for a known swindler. But the guillible would pay money for a believable psychic, especially those that are grieving a lost one. Afterall, isn't it comforting to hear your loved ones is smiling down from heaven and the angels are playing instruments (or maybe they give you closure for something). The issue with this is (besides the moral issues), it removes the entertainment value. People spend money to go out for entertainment. They know the mentalists are fake, despite you telling them it is real. Just like a magic show (because it is a mental magic show), sometimes spectators are fooled, and they wonder how he does it. And that is what separates the good from the bad magicians/mentalists. The good ones have the audience fooled while bringing entertainment. You see, most people in the audience do not think you have supernatural powers to read minds, just like the average magician cannot actually make things disappear. Even my jaw dropped when I saw on video Tommy Wonder vanishing a birdcage with his sleeves rolled up. Your elitist views actually has you convinced the audience is dumb. They are not, but they do enjoy the entertainment. My mom use to watch the psychics mediums on Dr Phil. I am sure he got high ratings because they were brought back as frequent guests. No one believed they had supernatural powers, but we did like their personality, confidence, attitude and ideas.

I would agree that those paying money are more likely to go along with the plot than strangers on a street. My sister was hypnotized by Criss Angel. Some random guy on a street probably won't bark like a dog, but many people on stage will. It will be a mentalist friendly audience.
Ravenspur
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On Sep 11, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
There is so much more to it, but I won't go on. It is far more than just a difference of perceptions, or on the minor level of which most magicians here are understanding. This really surprises me Ravenspur as you are an educator/teacher. If anyone, I would think you should understand the misinformation age, separating fact from opinion, and seeing a greater picture and proper understanding.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything.


I can go back and pick out the phrases, but you are very clearly trolling, i.e. including provoking statements. You don't address legitimate points or evidence. Mostly, you use ad hominem attacks.

And as far as teaching goes, you need to understand how information works to address misinformation. And even on this point, you bring up an ad hominem attack. For someone with such developed mental skills, it's a pity you can't count logical argument among them. [NOTE: This is both an ad hominem attack and trolling. Your professional skills may inform your argument, but it doesn't make your argument valid. And mentioning your profession in such a way tends to elicit a negative response].

However, please go on about the industry. Not only are you talking about things I don't know, I have no other way of learning about them. Even if I eventually disagree with you, you will have put some issues on the map for me.
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As to stage hypnotism being 'real mentalism." Here are a couple of extractions for a quick Google search (I am not talking about hypnotherapy)

"The greatest change in stage hypnotism over the years has been the gradual move from what used to be known as mesmerism, which was presented as a form of pseudoscience, to the present day, where the stage hypnotist combines magic and illusion with some comedy thrown in."

"After the audience members are chosen, they will go through a series of rapid inductions usually behind closed doors. Here the stage hypnotist will put them into a trance and begin use anchoring words and post-hypnotic suggestions for later. These are trigger words/actions that will make the participant quickly enter back into that hypnotic state on stage. "

"The causes of behaviour exhibited by volunteers in stage hypnosis shows is an area of dispute. Some claim it illustrates altered states of consciousness (i.e., "hypnotic trance"). Others maintain that it can be explained by a combination of psychological factors observed in group settings such as disorientation, compliance, peer pressure, and ordinary suggestion"

......
So, hypnotism may be "real" including that done on stage by professionals (some may be faked). But the techniques involved to make this "entertainment" can be learned and mastered by anyone regardless of their being "tainted" by performance magic early on. Yet, MindPro claims these elite, unnamed professionals succeed because they do not come from such corrupted roots.

Mentalism? How does any of this information support stage hypnosis being a demonstration of "mentalism" by any definition. Yes, some promoting themselves as mentalists include hypnosis in their show. Some magicians include hypnosis (real or faked) in their show. Some spectators may say, "I must have been hypnotized" to explain their astonishment over anything. The fact is that people paying to see a stage hypnotist and those paying to see a mentalist will have different expectations - none of which relate to the origins of training of the performer.
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WitchDocChris
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Nobody meets the elitist definition of mentalism


Except they do. I could write a pure mentalism show right now with the skills I have. I'm not sure who Mindpro means when he talks about those he's worked with - but you're either saying he's lying about hiring those people or you have to agree that he clearly knows several. Just because you don't know examples doesn't mean they don't exist.

Quote:
I have seen polished forum members state what I believe, mentalists are a specialized magicians.


Yes, I've seen that, too. There's also a big group of people that say the Earth is flat. Does that make it true?

Quote:
Interesting you state psychic entertainer, rather than just psychic. By adding entertainer, it implies it's all fake and not real.


I think what you meant to say is, "I assume that by adding entertainer". Because that's what you're doing.

Quote:
They know the mentalists are fake, despite you telling them it is real.


See, this is the problem right here. You're either willfully ignoring the facts we are stating, or you're incapable of understanding/accepting it.

Actual mentalism skills are not fake. They are real skills. I don't know how to say this more plainly. Real skills. Genuine. Authentic. Actually learned and honed. Not fake.

So they 'know' it's real, because it is real. It's not like the audience believes this because the audience is stupid - it's because they came to see someone demonstrate real skills and that's what the person is going to do.

Until you accept the fact that there are people who genuinely demonstrate these mental skills, every statement and argument you make is faulty because it's built on an incorrect assumption.

Quote:
No one believed they had supernatural powers, but we did like their personality, confidence, attitude and ideas.


Wildly assumptive. See, what I think is happening here is that you're assuming that everyone agrees with your perspective. This is clearly wrong. A moment on Google tells me the psychic industry is currently valued around 2 billion dollars, and is on the rise. Another quick search tells me roughly 60% of Americans believe in psychic abilities, with about 15-25% believing they have personally had a psychic experience. So it's not outrageous to think that there were more people who believed in those TV psychics than those who didn't.

Quote:
"After the audience members are chosen, they will go through a series of rapid inductions usually behind closed doors. Here the stage hypnotist will put them into a trance and begin use anchoring words and post-hypnotic suggestions for later. These are trigger words/actions that will make the participant quickly enter back into that hypnotic state on stage. "


What show is this referring to? I've never even heard of a stage hypnosis show working like this. It doesn't even make sense - why on Earth would a performer take the volunteers to another room, leaving the stage empty and the audience bored out of their mind? Is this about that TV show with Keith Barry?
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TomB
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Actual mentalism skills are not fake.

Can you define these skills?
Do you have video of these skills being used?

And I found a quote from Bob Cassidy,
Quote:
Actually, the term "psychic entertainer" is simply an umbrella term that covers mentalists, bizarrists, hypnotists, readers, and allied artists. 
The word "psychic, in this instance, is used to denote "of the mind."

I am going to assume Mindpro was adapting this definition. I would have used the word mental entertainer to avoid confusion.
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In the wee hours I have been pondering the "entertainment value" of these unspecified "actual mentalism skills."
That is, can a performer relying on such engage an audience for an hour or more using such skills even with extraordinary presentation skills?

MindPro offers a scenario in which a promoter has shelled out $50 grand for a planned show, including $10 grand for advertising and promotion.
With no answer to my questions as to what is said or promised, I will assume some must be about the performer's reputation and reviews. But he is an invisible character.
Now, it is difficult to imagine any mentalism effect to be 'engaging' for an audience of more that 2000 enthused spectators. So, if the promoter expects a reasonable profit,
tickets will be $40-50 dollars. What will be offered by the promoter get induce people to buy? What will they expect of the performer?

Now, I have made a partial list of "actual mentalism" I can do right now - without any claim of being a mentalist (elite or common). None of them would adequately engage
such a large audience, or even a smaller $1000/ticket crowd for an hour or more. I admit my limitations. Just "priming the pump" so that MindPro or others might offer what these
unique shadow performers might be up to. I exclude hypnosis for reasons explained above.

Pendulum work:
single suspended bob, smoke, reed, etc.
multi-bob including controlling bobs in different directions simultaneously, or with one end of stick held by a spectator
Radial pendulums with 2,3 or 4 other people involved in the holding of the anchor
controlling a pendulum without physical contact, e.g. I am across the room with the pendulum held by a spectator

Dousing - finding buried metal with bent coat hangers

Helstromism - to include dropping assistant's hand before completing the test, relying on intuition or gestalt energy from audience.

Spacial sensitivity (Close Call) - I have never done this for more that 20 observers, so large crowd appeal unknown.

Energy transference - shifting individual observer energy or intent to gestalt support to focused application for a directed task or individual. Most often used in group moderation/mediation but could be performed for entertainment or to gain audience support for later demonstrations.

Body heat control - the ability to change one's skin temperature at will.

Internal alarm - the ability to wake up at a giving time or after a set duration of sleep.

....

I'd be interested in what others here can do that might qualify as "real mentalism."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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WitchDocChris
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Quote:
Can you define these skills?
Do you have video of these skills being used?


Have you read this thread? There's several examples of real skills listed multiple times throughout.

Which ones of those are having trouble with the definition?
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Kong
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I'd like to see a video of a "genuine" mentalism performance too.

I saw Derren Brown's Infamous show at Llandudno a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I always thought he's a mentalist so I'm surprised to hear some say he isn't.
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On Sep 13, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
Can you define these skills?
Do you have video of these skills being used?


Have you read this thread? There's several examples of real skills listed multiple times throughout.

Which ones of those are having trouble with the definition?


Why a negative comment? I might have offered to explain some methods privately, but now am not sure.

Yes, "some" examples have been offered. None of which, for me, justify an hour plus show for a high ticket price.
So, I offer some other examples to encourage others to add additional examples - perhaps from large audience experience.
Since MindPro refuses to offer examples I must look elsewhere for viable examples.
....

no video - and never will be!

First off, if I share those I have some may attempt to perform with no real understanding of method and psychology involved. I am not trying to sell anything
or get a booking. I have offered some things for free. Try getting those first.

Next, the learning of such skills is incremental and possibly damaged by having a model to emulate. Each situation is unique as to audience engagement,
and any perspective limited by the cameraman's bias and availability. If one cannot imagine the performance and role-play in mind for contingencies,
then it is doubtful he can generate the trust essential to the effect. I feel learning conjuring by watching a video is not the best approach either,
but the expectations of an audience planning on experiencing mental based effects are more fragile. So, I ask, "Why would seeing a video help you
appreciate the value of 'real mentalism' over mental magic?"

Also, most of my performances/demonstrations require focused attention and gestalt energy/participation of the audience. No place for a camera in that orchestration. The presence of a camera can easily change the essential dynamics of the conditions. Any secret camera would destroy the trust. For me "real mentalism" means "real event'. A video is not a real experience.

All this means is that my examples may not be those useful for MIndPro's high ticket show. Thus, I ask for other examples.
Please, someone give a hint of a performance that would justify a $50-100 ticket and enjoyment of an hour or more that would be marketed as "real mentalism."

No deep secrets, though. Anyone can journey to Dandridge, TN and spend a week as my guest. We can go out into the community and do real mentalism or pretend stuff and discover what real people think is astonishing, magic, hype, superpower or silliness.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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