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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Too soon for mentalism? (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Experienced folks know that mentalism (contemporary or traditional) requires more theatrical chops than magic does.


Hahaha, easy there pumpkin. Mentalism requires a different understanding of what's coming across in performance, but performing top-flight magic is extremely difficult as well. Let's not compare good mentalism performance to bad magic performance, unless we're also open to comparing good magic performance to bad mentalism performance.
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Drylid
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Never too soon for mentalism! Pick up a book and start learning today! Everyone starts somewhere! Many affordable books available at vanishing inc, penguin magic and ellusionist
Mindpro
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Yep, for magic mentalism.
Mr. Woolery
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Mindpro, will you please suggest some resources for learning real mentalism?

Patrick
Drylid
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WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Hahaha, easy there pumpkin. Mentalism requires a different understanding of what's coming across in performance, but performing top-flight magic is extremely difficult as well. Let's not compare good mentalism performance to bad magic performance, unless we're also open to comparing good magic performance to bad mentalism performance.


Check the attitude.

Anyone with an Invisible Deck and some sponge bunnies can get people reacting.

A mediocre magician can get reactions out of people. Indeed - plenty of professionals are really not that interesting on stage. Recycled jokes, cardboard personalities, no cohesion to the show.

A mentalist can't get away with that. If a mentalist does a crap show, they're just thought of as a magician (because the show will be presented like a magic show). Or they're just boring.

Top end performers in both fields are a different creature all together. I'm not talking about that layer of the pyramid. I'm talking about the entry points.

A magician can lean on the props or methods until they get the theatrical skills under their belt. A mentalist has to have them before they can get going. The starting points are in different places, is what I'm saying.
Christopher
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The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Sep 20, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Hahaha, easy there pumpkin. Mentalism requires a different understanding of what's coming across in performance, but performing top-flight magic is extremely difficult as well. Let's not compare good mentalism performance to bad magic performance, unless we're also open to comparing good magic performance to bad mentalism performance.


Check the attitude.


Oh, settle down, peaches. This entire thread has had a constant ongoing theme of dumping on magicians for not grokking what mentalism is all about, with enough true Scotsmen to start a caber tossing contest. Even just now, your description of a "crap" mentalism show was to say that the performer would be "thought of as a magician". You were doing better when the focus of your arguments was keying on differences between magic and mentalism rather than hinting at the virtues of one over the other.
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WitchDocChris
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You missed the important part - it would be seen as a magic show because performers lacking the theatrical skills will present mentalism as if it were magic. It's not, and doing so isn't effective. It isn't a judgement on the value of either, only a statement of the likely perception of the audience - you're the one applying the judgment to the statement.

But feel free to continue cherry picking and ignoring the parts that don't support your case.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Sep 20, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
You missed the important part - it would be seen as a magic show because performers lacking the theatrical skills will present mentalism as if it were magic.


You weren't talking about it being seen as a magic show, you were talking about it being a "crap mentalism show" and bringing the way magicians perform into it. Careful moving those goalposts, though, you might throw your back out.

Quote:
But feel free to continue cherry picking and ignoring the parts that don't support your case.


As somebody who loves both magic and mentalism, my issue here has nothing to do with one or the other. I'd just like to see a bit more respect being shown to magic than dismissal of the art as something that can be adequately accomplished by some tyro handling sponge bunnies or an invisible deck, coupled with little enthusiasm to at the very least acknowledge what's going on when it's being done well.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
The Burnaby Kid
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Tell you what. Here's an olive branch. If you'll admit you're possibly being a bit too dismissive about magic as an art-form, I'll admit I shouldn't have called you peaches. Deal?
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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