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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » 9/11 (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom Cutts
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On Sep 14, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On Sep 14, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
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On Sep 13, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On Sep 13, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
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On Sep 13, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:

We don't revere crash sites.

Who is “we”. Ever see a roadside commemoration, usually a cross and flowers placed at a fatal crash site on its anniversary? The 9/11 memorial sites? (Admittedly a bit on the semantic side).

Different cultures have different ways to commemorate their passed relatives.

It is definitely on the semantic side. Revering is different from commemoration.


Yes, it is. Please tell us why you brought the word revere into this discussion?


Why did you bring in commemoration?

I'm not getting into a petty back and forth.


It’s not a petty back and forth. You brought up “revere” and I am interested to know why you chose that word.

Why I chose commemorate, because I believe that is what one does when one honors such events.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
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On Sep 13, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
Why; because those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
To chirp "infamy" or "911" on cue does not demonstrate learning from history. The line about forgetting history is from chapter twelve, along with "instinctive reaction, like a bird's chirp". Same book, chapter five
Quote:
A man half-asleep, without fixed purposes, without intellectual keenness or joy in recognition, might graze about like an animal, forgetting each satisfaction in the next and banishing from his frivolous mind the memory of every sorrow; what had just failed to kill him would leave him as thoughtless and unconcerned as if it had never crossed his path. Such irrational elasticity and innocent improvidence would never put two and two together. Every morning there would be a new world with the same fool to live in it. But let some sobering passion, some serious interest, lend perspective to the mind, and a point of reference will immediately be given for protracted observation; then the laws of nature will begin to dawn upon thought. Every experiment will become a lesson, every event will be remembered as favourable or unfavourable to the master-passion.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Tom Cutts
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On Sep 15, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
To chirp "infamy" or "911" on cue does not demonstrate learning from history.

I didn’t say it did.

To that point, I would agree that some powers would weaponize memory of certain events. Such makes it all that more important that others show a respectful commemoration for the lives lost and what that might speak to us as human beings, not weapons of the state, or haters of a fate.

So let me be clear, I didn’t say such events should be revered. Nor did I say such events require that people fall in step and chip a battle cry. Those who brought up such concerns would add to the conversation by explaining why that is their input here. Certainly not a “requirement” to participation, but perhaps they owe it to their point to be clear what they mean and why.
landmark
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To that point, I would agree that some powers would weaponize memory of certain events.


Exactly. And we might remember (or learn) what 9/11 means to thousands of Chilean families as well.
tommy
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Even those who can change things cannot change the past and while they could change the varative they have their story and they are sticking to it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
To chirp "infamy" or "911" on cue does not demonstrate learning from history.

I didn’t say it did.

To that point, I would agree that some powers would weaponize memory of certain events. Such makes it all that more important that others show a respectful commemoration for the lives lost and what that might speak to us as human beings, not weapons of the state, or haters of a fate.

So let me be clear, I didn’t say such events should be revered. Nor did I say such events require that people fall in step and chip a battle cry. Those who brought up such concerns would add to the conversation by explaining why that is their input here. Certainly not a “requirement” to participation, but perhaps they owe it to their point to be clear what they mean and why.
We get sidetracked away from commemoration of those lost to an event into context of that event. Away from shared loss and moment of silence to remember those lost. The other side of that loss, not to a random act so much as a political event, remains an open wound festering from neglect, or salted when used as lure for other topical discussions. Unfortunately it's not so abstract as "some would" as "many do" anchor the shared pain to focus feelings about others. A vague feeling where others are seen only in shadows and through the red haze of mortal insult. This happens as acting leadership which organized and performed the actions (whose consequences we commemorate) are gifted immunity from civil prosecution and continue to get support from our government as local authorities in their homelands. On that day, "9/11" my neighbors lost loved ones - and acquaintances spoke of the grey wall of smoke which flowed through lower Manhattan leaving an layer of soot and toxic fog. One person at I work lost his brother on one of those planes. In my own experience I can speak to the feeling of horror as air trafic was shut down and the pulse of goods and services stopped for a day.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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The fog of war

“War is the realm of uncertainty; three quarters of the factors on which action in war is based are wrapped in a fog of greater or lesser uncertainty. A sensitive and discriminating judgment is called for; a skilled intelligence to scent out the truth.”


— Carl von Clausewitz
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
pegasus
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On Sep 12, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
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On Sep 11, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
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On Sep 11, 2019, magicfish wrote:
History is a relegation?


In 20 years it's just another chapter.
Once upon a time people could travel by airplane without taking off their shoes.


Assuming your regular airline has expensive carpet?
Jonathan Townsend
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On Sep 19, 2019, pegasus wrote:
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On Sep 12, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Once upon a time people could travel by airplane without taking off their shoes.
Assuming your regular airline has expensive carpet?
Please explain, I'm missing your meaning.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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Now you know how most feel reading your posts. Try it for over a decade before you complain.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Before entering his place of worship the Islamist takes off his shoes, which is part of the Islamic cleansing ritual: to leave the dust of the world at the door. He washes his hands and feet and kneels upon his prayer carpet and so on. We have to go through a similar cleansing ritual at airports. May you have a safe flight.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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