The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Dr. Daley's last trick & a two-card pass??? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Hi folks,


I posted this in Secret Sessions, but thought it might get more exposure here.



In the handling that I'm using (which I'd gladly describe if it helps), the magician shows two cards -- the red aces, let's say -- and places them face down on the table. She invites the spectator to see which ace is really on top, and he discovers that he has the black aces. The red aces are now in magi's hand, with the *wrong* card on top -- i. e., the spectator's guess about the which red card is on top turns out to be wrong. I think this is pretty standard no?


I'd like to make one change. While the spectator is looking at the unexpectedly black aces in his hand, I want to reverse the order of the red cards in my hand so that it turns out that the spectator was *right* (just in the wrong location). It's simple enough to just exchange the top and bottom cards, but my question is: how likely is that motion to be observed by the spectator or other spectators at the table? If the answer is "likely," then I wonder if anyone can suggest a simple, unobtrusive way to change the order? Maybe a single overhand shuffle of the two card packet??


I should add that passes are far too advanced for me at the moment. But if a pass is a secret cut of the deck, then I guess that secretly exchanging the cards in a two-card packet is a pass of sorts!


Thanks for any help people can offer.


Best Regards,


Bob
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2968 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding you, you can just change the way you lay down the cards on the table, or change the question you ask.

Can you type out your precise script?
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Gerald Deutsch
View Profile
Elite user
488 Posts

Profile of Gerald Deutsch
I posted a "Perverse Magic" presentation of Daley's trick on the Perverse Magic thread of the Genii Forum on June 1, 2017 and it appears on page 391 of "Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years".
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
341 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Quote:
On Sep 12, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Hi folks,


I posted this in Secret Sessions, but thought it might get more exposure here.



In the handling that I'm using (which I'd gladly describe if it helps), the magician shows two cards -- the red aces, let's say -- and places them face down on the table. She invites the spectator to see which ace is really on top, and he discovers that he has the black aces. The red aces are now in magi's hand, with the *wrong* card on top -- i. e., the spectator's guess about the which red card is on top turns out to be wrong. I think this is pretty standard no?


I'd like to make one change. While the spectator is looking at the unexpectedly black aces in his hand, I want to reverse the order of the red cards in my hand so that it turns out that the spectator was *right* (just in the wrong location). It's simple enough to just exchange the top and bottom cards, but my question is: how likely is that motion to be observed by the spectator or other spectators at the table? If the answer is "likely," then I wonder if anyone can suggest a simple, unobtrusive way to change the order? Maybe a single overhand shuffle of the two card packet??


I should add that passes are far too advanced for me at the moment. But if a pass is a secret cut of the deck, then I guess that secretly exchanging the cards in a two-card packet is a pass of sorts!


Thanks for any help people can offer.


Best Regards,


Bob


Bob, the answer I believe is pretty simple. Bear with me, it may sound like a big deal but trust me it is not. With two cards in the hand it is really easy to do a bottom deal. I urge you to just grab two cards and give it a try. Since there are only two cards, thickness, which does impact the difficulty of bottom dealing doesn't come into play.

Attitude is important too. You simply reach over to the LH, allow your right thumb to apparently swipe the card off of the top (you can even do a fake push off with your left thumb) but what you are really doing is removing the bottom card. When this becomes good an looks smooth you can then add a wrist-turn, stud-deal motion to it and then it will be great.

Give it a try.
Ed Oschmann
View Profile
Special user
Lake Worth FL
867 Posts

Profile of Ed Oschmann
A simple side steal would be fine. If you're going this route, then it's better to show the card in your hand first before letting them turn over their cards.
jim ferguson
View Profile
Regular user
Ayrshire, Scotland
198 Posts

Profile of jim ferguson
After the transposition, it doesn't matter which order the cards are in the magicians hands.

In over thirty years ive never once had anyone mention, nor care about the order of the cards I hold. The transposition is the thing - the mention of the order is simply to keep them focused and is really just misdirection.


Jim
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Thanks, everybody! I'd like to respond to people's remarks:


Burnaby: I haven't written out a detailed script yet, but here's an approximation. I tell spec. I'm going to test their observation skills. I show them ace of diamonds and place it face down on table. Then ace of hearts, and I slip it, FD, *under* alleged ace of diamonds that's already on table. I ask them which card is on top. They say, we assume, ace of diamonds. I slide the tabled cards toward them and say, "Let's see how you did."


While they're looking (and, we hope, confused and surprised to find that they have the black aces), I reverse the order of the red aces in my hand. When they show me that they have the black aces, I act bewildered (if I can pull it off: I'm not a talented actor). I then say something like, "Wait, that wasn't supposed to happen." And then: "Oh look, you were right!" -- and show them that the top card in my hand is indeed a diamond. The reason for reversing the cards is: in the handling I was taught, the heart ends up on top in my hand. I want the spectator to end up being *right*, not wrong. My hope is to make it quite clear that I'm not trying to make a fool of my spectator.



Gerald: I own your book and am enjoying it. When I thought about presentation for this trick, I immediately wondered whether you had a handling. I haven't had a chance to look the trick up yet because I thought the book was black. Apparently it did a color change. When I looked for the fifth time I found myself wondering, what's that strange colorful book on my shelf? -- and it was yours. I look forward to reading p. 391. I don't have much performance experience, but I'm already discovering how easy it is to make it *seem* like I'm playing a dirty trick on my spectator. I'm a little surprised, because I'm quite mild-mannered. I don't want the revelation of the transposition to look like I'm trying to make the audience feel small. As I said to Burnaby, I'd like to pretend to be as surprised as my audience -- if I can pull it off.


Tortuga: really interesting idea. I'll give it a try. If I succeed it making it look good then I can brag to my friends that I can do a bottom deal. (They won't know what I mean, of course.) Later: I tried this out a couple of times out of curiosity, and found that if I tried to fake a right-thumb pushoff, I did a *real* one, with the result that my two hands were working at cross purposes. Is this just a question of sufficient practice, or is there a special technique in faking the pushoff?


Ed: Naturally I'd like to brag that I can do a side steal, too. I have some sources for this, including Card College and Jason England's video. Would you say that a side-steal is considerably easier with just two cards? Like the bottom deal, the side-steal has a reputation for being hard.


Jim, thanks again for helping me out. Two people responded to my same OP in Secret Sessions, and between them they said something quite similar to what you said: (1) I won't get caught if I just casually reverse the cards, and (2) no need to even bring up the order of cards in my hands, which would be an anti-climax after the mysterious appearance of the wrong-color aces on the table.


Lots of interesting thoughts here, folks. I very much appreciate the time you took to help me. If I arrive at a presentation that seems to work well for me, I'll let you know about it.


Regards,


Bob
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2968 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
From that choreography, you could probably slip it under the card on the table, then immediately slide it out and almost set it on the top, then slip it under, then immediately bring it to the top again and then set it down. Same question, you don't have to do anything to the cards in your hand, and the little pseudo-pretend mixing procedure would give the impression that something supposedly happened there at that point.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
The pseudo-mixing is an interesting idea. But I don't understand why I wouldn't have to do anything with the cards in my hand.
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2968 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
If you reverse the orientation of the cards on the table, you don't have to worry about changing the orientation of the cards in your hand.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Gerald, I read your presentation. It's nice in that it is no longer a test for the spectator; the magi says she's going to do one thing and another thing happens instead. In your book you often refer to the importance of good acting. Do you have any tips on how the magi might react when she discovers that she got it wrong? I'm not a natural actor. I thought of trying to play a clown -- the kind for whom everything goes wrong no matter how hard she tries. I'm not sure I could pull that off.


I thought of trying to do your presentation without words, because my movements and facial expressions often make people laugh. Perhaps I could cultivate that in magic. But so far I haven't figured out a way to do your version of Daley without words.


So, thanks for any advice...


Bob
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Hi Tortuga, I just realized I made a mistake in my reply that may have been confusing. I meant, when I try to fake a *left* hand pushoff I run into problems.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Tortuga, I have to correct my correction! I meant left *thumb* pushoff. I really want to try this, whether I end up using it in this trick or not. It just seems really fun.


Burnaby, okay, I get it now. I lost track of the number of times the cards on the table got pseudo-reversed. So the spectator sees that after all the mixing I've put the second card on top of the first. They'll make their guess on that basis, and the guess will correspond to the order of cards in my hand. Nice idea. In practice I wonder whether spectator might get confused by the pseudo-mixing and make the "wrong" guess, even if I did the mixing pretty slowly. Hmmm... Here's an idea: each time I change where the second card is going to go, I ask the spectator which card is on top. That should help them keep track, and also add a little fun silliness.


Bob
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2968 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Well, the point is that whatever confusion they feel about which red card is where is going to get quickly overshadowed by the fact that they're both black cards all of a sudden. That's actually one reason why people are telling you that you can probably get away with a bottom deal or a side-steal or something, because that moment is going to be so strong that their attention will come completely off the cards in your hand, in which case you could do anything. The reversal of the cards in your hand is going to be insignificant compared to the transposition of the red cards for the black ones.

And, I wouldn't take to long to show that the red cards have become black ones. Every second the cards are face-down is a second where the spectator loses some part of their emotional/intuitive connection to the previously-seen state, which can lessen the impact of the revealed change. Darwin Ortiz talks about this in his books.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Thanks for the observation about the previously-seen state. I've heard lots of good things about Ortiz's books. Right now I'm abstaining from magic buying, but he's near the top of the list.
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
341 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Bob G, I'll bet you have as many books and/or videos as you need for awhile. Sometimes I wish I had stopped with the purchases.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1361 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Ha! I'm sure you're right. That's why I'm abstaining. I probably already have enough books and DVD's to occupy me for the rest of my life. There's definitely some value in getting different people's points of view, but it's all too easy, especially in the age of the internet, to get carried away.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Dr. Daley's last trick & a two-card pass??? (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL