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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Overhand Jog Shuffle Control: Hiding the Break (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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toothlessrufus
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Hello. I am wondering how best to approach hiding the break in the card packets during the overhand jog shuffle control. There is an obvious wedge that is viewable from the top or the bottom. I can see changing the angle of the hand, tilting it slightly back, but this can sometimes flash the bottom of the wedge.

I'm wondering if there is a better way? Obviously trying to keep it small helps. I am experimenting with beveling the packets separately, and blending the bevels at the top, so that from the top it just looks like a beveled full deck and therefore could be viewed more cleanly, leaving only the bottom to be concealed. But it is difficult to make this perfect double bevel packet control without showing a break from the top as well sometimes but maybe that will get better with practice

Are there any resources anyone knows that deals specifically with this issue?
Tortuga
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You're not necessarily overthinking it but perhaps your concern is too great. One of the keys to me is rhythm and allowing the cards to land a little sloppy. No need to be super precise. Let the natural irregularity hide the jog.

Are you using your thumb in the receiving hand to make the jog or are you injogging a card from your top hand?

Personally I don't think the jog needs to be small so long as you use a natural, consistent rhythm. I've noticed that good rhythm helps a lot of moves look better.
kShepher
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If you are truly concerned you might want to investigate the Lift Shuffle.

That said...chances are you will never be caught using the jog, as long as the "wedge" is facing you and the deck is squared in the front.
toothlessrufus
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I didn’t explain what I meant very well. Not talking about the in jogged card. I agree that can be hidden well enough with a little mess.

I meant the obviously separated wedge-shaped break that forms after the right thumb catches the injogged card and pushes in and up separating the deck into 2 distinct packets

The deck here is perpendicular to the floor in the right hand not horizontal in left hand dealing position. I’m comfortable disguising that pinky break along the right side.
magicfish
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It doesn't need to be hidden. The hands and the cards are in motion immediately after the thumb strikes the jog and the gap is natural since it morphs into the first chop of the shuffle.
Hope that makes sense.
Tortuga
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I agree with Magicfish. Like I said, rhythm and nonchalant attitude are key.
Rachmaninov
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To be honest, I’ve been caught only one time with this break, but it was by a fellow magi. I agree with others saying if it’s not too large, the motion and little mess will hide the gap. And of course don’t look at the cards during the shuffle and you will be safe.
MorrisCH
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If you really are worry, you can do double undercut after the chop, just angle the deck after initial shuffle action, established pinky break and go from there.
But I’ve never get caught doing standards jog shuffle, timing and rhythm is everything
Tortuga
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On Sep 15, 2019, MorrisCH wrote:
If you really are worry, you can do double undercut after the chop, just angle the deck after initial shuffle action, established pinky break and go from there.
But I’ve never get caught doing standards jog shuffle, timing and rhythm is everything


There is no need for a pinky break if you press with the thumb and keep going in a fluid motion. Looks exactly like a cut.
Rachmaninov
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À nice bevel helps too, and it is more elegant. The US magicians overhand shuffle looks awkward very often. The Spanish school is better to my mind. I’ve learned it from Card college and I’ve seen Tamariz doing the shuffle the same way, with a strong bevel.

As for overthinking, I agree with others here. When you watch Steve Forte who is not a 3 weeks old rabbit as we are used to say in French, he uses a pretty large gap and a half an inch injog in overhands shuffles. Relax handling and rythm makes it natural.
magicfish
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Don't overlook Larry Jennings' treatment of the jog shuffle - which doesn't employ an in-jog at all.
Tortuga
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On Sep 15, 2019, Rachmaninov wrote:
À nice bevel helps too, and it is more elegant. The US magicians overhand shuffle looks awkward very often. The Spanish school is better to my mind. I’ve learned it from Card college and I’ve seen Tamariz doing the shuffle the same way, with a strong bevel.

As for overthinking, I agree with others here. When you watch Steve Forte who is not a 3 weeks old rabbit as we are used to say in French, he uses a pretty large gap and a half an inch injog in overhands shuffles. Relax handling and rythm makes it natural.


Ditto!
Greg Kiefer
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A basic resource for the overhand shuffle control can be found In the Magic Book by Harry Lorayne. Like the author himself always says in his post. “You got to read the good stuff”. Lol.
toothlessrufus
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Thank you everyone for the excellent advice and I will also check out the "Spanish school" of card handling (any book or especially video recs?) including Juan Tamariz and the Harry Lorayne book!! Its just that I cringe when practicing the overhand jog shuffle control in the mirror; I see the opening top and bottom but this sounds like will help a bunch!!
Rachmaninov
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Another helpful advise I came up with is to keep the line of the upper edge of the deck aligned with the gaze of the main part of the audience.

I discovered that keeping in mind those angle consideration during performance helps to conceal angle sensitive techniques, especially if you think those considerations as plan of audience’s gaze related to the plan in which the technique has to be seen (visualize those two plans).
WingChun
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I second both Card College description and Lorayne method. The Magic book (Close-up card magic and his Classic Collections deal with it as well) has a detailed decription but watching Lorayne (and hearing him in his Best Ever collection dvds) is a wonderful lesson in learning all the nuances of this technique. Agai, quoting, check and read the good stuff.
Tortuga
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On Sep 15, 2019, toothlessrufus wrote:
Thank you everyone for the excellent advice and I will also check out the "Spanish school" of card handling (any book or especially video recs?) including Juan Tamariz and the Harry Lorayne book!! Its just that I cringe when practicing the overhand jog shuffle control in the mirror; I see the opening top and bottom but this sounds like will help a bunch!!


As you learn the shuffle from the referenced sources, make sure that you do it very slowly at the start. Learn the motions and perform it very deliberately. Don't just rush into it. As the motions become familiar and the muscle memory takes over, then begin to speed it up. Use a comfortable, steady rhythm.

It might be helpful to watch Harry Lorayne on any number of his videos and notice how he holds the cards, peels them off, receives them, etc. He is the reason I went back to overhand shuffling. I had abandoned it many years ago in favor of tabled riffle shuffles. When standing I would still riffle shuffle. Then I saw Harry do a control with the overhand shuffle, began using it again and now only do tabled riffles when seated.
WingChun
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2019, toothlessrufus wrote:
Thank you everyone for the excellent advice and I will also check out the "Spanish school" of card handling (any book or especially video recs?) including Juan Tamariz and the Harry Lorayne book!! Its just that I cringe when practicing the overhand jog shuffle control in the mirror; I see the opening top and bottom but this sounds like will help a bunch!!


As you learn the shuffle from the referenced sources, make sure that you do it very slowly at the start. Learn the motions and perform it very deliberately. Don't just rush into it. As the motions become familiar and the muscle memory takes over, then begin to speed it up. Use a comfortable, steady rhythm.

It might be helpful to watch Harry Lorayne on any number of his videos and notice how he holds the cards, peels them off, receives them, etc. He is the reason I went back to overhand shuffling. I had abandoned it many years ago in favor of tabled riffle shuffles. When standing I would still riffle shuffle. Then I saw Harry do a control with the overhand shuffle, began using it again and now only do tabled riffles when seated.


Tortuga I agree on everyting you mention.
As you do, I riffle shuffle mostly when seated and overhand in stand up performances.
As an added note, Allan Ackerman shows an overhand control in his Advanced Card Control series vol. 3 which is pretty good (and at least worth checking) when your hands are really burned or the spectators a very close to the performer. I used to use this control in past but since I learned Lorayne's method, keeping attention to the audience and not to the hands and performing in a nonchalant attitude, I've relied on it quite rarely if not at all. The final sequence, indeed, needs a surface for a multiple cut from the hand onto the table, thus simetimes limiting the application.
And one final note: Lorayne is the man who triggered the card magic love to Ackerman (and probably to more than half of the cardicians in the world!) So the circle is closed. My 2 cents.
Tortuga
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2019, WingChun wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 16, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2019, toothlessrufus wrote:
Thank you everyone for the excellent advice and I will also check out the "Spanish school" of card handling (any book or especially video recs?) including Juan Tamariz and the Harry Lorayne book!! Its just that I cringe when practicing the overhand jog shuffle control in the mirror; I see the opening top and bottom but this sounds like will help a bunch!!


As you learn the shuffle from the referenced sources, make sure that you do it very slowly at the start. Learn the motions and perform it very deliberately. Don't just rush into it. As the motions become familiar and the muscle memory takes over, then begin to speed it up. Use a comfortable, steady rhythm.

It might be helpful to watch Harry Lorayne on any number of his videos and notice how he holds the cards, peels them off, receives them, etc. He is the reason I went back to overhand shuffling. I had abandoned it many years ago in favor of tabled riffle shuffles. When standing I would still riffle shuffle. Then I saw Harry do a control with the overhand shuffle, began using it again and now only do tabled riffles when seated.


Tortuga I agree on everyting you mention.
As you do, I riffle shuffle mostly when seated and overhand in stand up performances.
As an added note, Allan Ackerman shows an overhand control in his Advanced Card Control series vol. 3 which is pretty good (and at least worth checking) when your hands are really burned or the spectators a very close to the performer. I used to use this control in past but since I learned Lorayne's method, keeping attention to the audience and not to the hands and performing in a nonchalant attitude, I've relied on it quite rarely if not at all. The final sequence, indeed, needs a surface for a multiple cut from the hand onto the table, thus simetimes limiting the application.
And one final note: Lorayne is the man who triggered the card magic love to Ackerman (and probably to more than half of the cardicians in the world!) So the circle is closed. My 2 cents.


Great post and you are correct that Mr. Lorayne is responsible for many top cardmen getting started off on the right foot. His work is legendary.
magicfish
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Every discussion of expertise on the Jog Shuffle must include Harry Lorayne.
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