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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » The counts in All the Nonconformists; discarding gaff in Capitulating Queens; is "examinable" good? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bob G
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Hi people,


1. I'm intrigued by Michael Ammar's performance, in "Easy to Master 9," of Martin Gardner's "All the nonconformists." I was able to follow Ammar's explanation through the phase where each of the four aces is shown to have an odd-colored back. After that, when he shows all the cards to be blue, then all red, then two red and two blue, I got lost. Can anyone tell me the names of the counts that he's using in that second phase?



2. I've been working on James Swain's "capitulating queens." When I came across "All the noncomformists," I was delighted because it seemed like a simpler warm-up for the more demanding "queens," which requires the magician to hold display five cards as if they were four, and then to get rid of the gaff card at the end. On another thread people gave me some excellent help on the "spread" business. My question now is: is there any way to discard the gaff besides a gambler's cop?


Mind you, there are several tricks I want to learn for which knowing the cop would be helpful, so the cop is definitely on my list of sleights to learn. But if there's a way to hide the gaff at the end without the cop, then I could have the pleasure of performing the trick while still learning the cop.


3. Of course, implicit in my question about "queens" is the question of whether to let people examine the cards at the end. Other threads here examine the issue in detail, but I'm wondering what people think about it in the case of this particular trick. Would it make the trick more effective or less effective to just put the cards away without offering them for examination? The same goes for "all the nonconformists." To me it always feels like an anticlimax when the spectators get to see the cards at the end: the situation seems static compared to the sequence of mysterious changes during the trick; also, by showing the cards you're giving away a little piece of the secret.


In the case of "nonconformists," there may be a way to have the four aces already in the deck, and then just replace them at the end. That would be fine if I'm doing only the one trick, but I'm not sure how to handle that in a multi-trick routine, since two of the cards' backs are the wrong color.


Thanks for any suggestions you can offer!


Best Regards,


Bob
Tortuga
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Bob, speaking for myself here obviously but I rarely have had the spectators grab for cards. Maybe I'm just lucky. I think attitude plays a role. If you look like you are hiding something then people will be more inclined to wonder why. If you end and leave the cards within arms reach and relax, they get the idea that there is no reason to look at them because surely if there was something "different" about them you would never leave them open like that, right? Who knows what they think really.

As far as ditching, there are a number of ways to do it. For one, make it your last trick with those cards. If you must do another trick then put the cards into the box and begin to put it away and absentmindedly "remember" there was one more you wanted to show them. Leave the gaff behind with the jokers. If when you begin to perform you take out the cards and remove the jokers and put them back into the box you then have perfect cover. Are you sitting curing the trick? You could lap the gaff.

Regarding the Ammar performance, is it a DVD? Does he list sleights with attribution at the end as some people do? That might help identify the counts. I don't own the DVD, if that is what it is, so I cannot help.
Bob G
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Hi Tortuga,


You've responded helpfully to many of my questions, and I appreciate it. I'm sitting, so lapping is an option. But wouldn't that require a gambler's cop to pull off the bottom (gaffed) card first?


I'll check on whether the Ammar DVD, Easy to Master Card Miracles Vol. 9, has credits at the end. That's the DVD that has Gardner's trick.



You make a good point about attitude. I'm naturally tense, so it's going to be some work to cultivate an outward devil-may-care attitude. Worthwhile work, but not easy.


Thanks again,


Bob
Tortuga
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Simply leave the gaff on top and deal it off into your lap with the left thumb. No need to do anything complicated. Do it on the offbeat when folks have relaxed. for cover you can rest your hand with the deck on the edge of the table and adjust your posture in the seat. As your hand comes away from the edge as you lean back, allow it to dip a bit and dispose of the card. The table edge provides all the shade you need. If that doesn't feel right to you then get it to the bottom of the pack and hold it from above in Biddle grip, while maintaining a break. Allow the hand to come past the table edge and then just release it.
Bob G
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I'll give that a try. Or, after a decent interval, I'll just pick up the packet again and put it back in its envelope. A bit of experimentation is called for here. I've been surprised at how often people have been able to offer simple solutions in place of complicated sleights. A whole new world to explore...
Tortuga
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You have enough sleights in the routine without having to to add another move just in order to dispose of something. Make your life easy.
Bob G
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Good idea. All the nonconformists has just one sleight, the EC (executed four times, I think), if I just do the first half of the routine, in which each of the four cards is successively shown to be the card of a different colored back. Capitulating queens is is more complicated.
Rik Gazelle
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It has been a long time since I watched "Easy To Master Card Miracles". I do remember practising "All The Non-Conformists" because it made repeated use of the Elmsley count.

If memory serves me correctly (which it might not because I am heading towards my dotage!) the 2nd phase consists of a "Hamman two-for-four" count to show all the backs as the same colour. This is followed by a straight true count of the four cards to show the 2 reds and two blues.
Bob G
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Thanks, Rik! I'll compare the description of the two-for-four count to what Ammar describes.


Join the DT (Dotage Club). As I say to my students sometimes before I take attendance, "Let's see if we're all here. I know *I'm" not all here."


"Nonconformists is a beautiful trick, and, besides that I'm learning it for the same reason you did: to practice my EC.


Bob
Degio
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Hi Bob, Capitulating Queens is one of my favourite packet tricks!
I also considered for a while how to get rid of the gaff and give out for examination the 4 queens: an easy way uses a standard deck. This video will give you a hint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RknSIMx5E

But then I decided it is not worth it: if you display at the end the queens using Ascanio's Open Display (which can be found in Card College Vol.3) no other additional convincer is needed and you can just put back the packet in your card wallet (or in the pocket).
Degio
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Concerning your first question, that is indeed the Hamman Two-for-Four count, that you can find in Card College Vol.2.
If you are interested, have a look also at Kainoa Harbottle's version of "All the Nonconformists", contained in his Penguin Live Lecture: it's stunning!
Bob G
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Hi Degio,


Thanks for al this info; much appreciated. Like you, I love the Capitulating Queens. I watched the video you linked me too and realized that I'd seen it before but had never thought about how Plants gets rid of the gaff. So this time I watched for it and it's good, very smooth. But -- Since I want to do Ascanio's Open Display at the beginning of the trick (once I learn it the display), I might as well do the display again at the end -- so your idea strikes me as a great way to avoid doing the gambler's cop.


About Harbottle's "Nonconformists": First, is this the right video?:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3174 .


Second, would you mind briefly describing what makes Harbottle's version of the trick so good, and different from other handlings such as Michael Ammar's? I ask because I hate to drop $30 on one trick, unless I feel that that trick will be pretty spectacular.


And third, how difficult is Harbottle's version?


Thanks for all your help.


Bob
Degio
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2019, Bob G wrote:
About Harbottle's "Nonconformists": First, is this the right video?:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3174 .

Yep! That's the one!

If you are also into coin magic you should definitely get Harbottle's Penguin Lecture, as he is simply a master in that area.
Buying it just for one trick... well... that may be a bit of an expensive exercise.
His version is quite long and definitely technically more challenging than the standard one.
I'll PM you some more details.
Tortuga
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2019, Degio wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2019, Bob G wrote:
About Harbottle's "Nonconformists": First, is this the right video?:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3174 .

Yep! That's the one!

If you are also into coin magic you should definitely get Harbottle's Penguin Lecture, as he is simply a master in that area.
Buying it just for one trick... well... that may be a bit of an expensive exercise.
His version is quite long and definitely technically more challenging than the standard one.
I'll PM you some more details.


Another option to be able to see Harbottle in action and teaching is on the Reel Magic site. Best investment in your magic education by far, $5.00 a month. Where can you learn hundreds of tricks for the price of a decent pack of cards?
Bob G
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Thanks to you both, Degio and Tortuga.
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