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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Matrix: Forward, then Reverse, *without* backfire (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bob G
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Hi folks,


I have a little story in mind to go with Matrix. What I need in order to make the trick go with the story is this: a matrix effect with 4 cards; the four coins revealed under one card; and then an almost instantaneous return of the four coins to the four corners under the 4 cards.


There are plenty of variations on Al Schneider's Matrix (not to mention the original itself), so the "forward" part won't be a problem. The difficulty I'm having is finding a *reverse* matrix. I have found one or two, but I'd like to have an idea of what my options are.


Again, I'd prefer not to do a "backfire" routine, in which the forward part is done without the audience ever actually seeing the 4 coins under one card. I'd rather they saw all four coins and *then* suddenly the coins return home, each under its own card. I'm willing to compromise on this, though.


I'd also prefer to do a gaffless routine.


Thanks for any help you can offer.


Regards,


Bob
David Neighbors
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Hi Bob,
I have A lot Of reverse Matrix Stuff! but Most of it is Sight gaff Combo ! Smile
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atroc
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Is it that you don't want the coins gaffed, or you don't want any utilities/gaffs involved at all?
Bob G
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Thanks, David and atroc,


Honestly I'm not sure. The most important part is that I want the coins to assemble under one card, be visible to spectators when I remove the card, and then immediately (more or less) go "back home" so that there's exactly one coin under each of the four cards. I'm not a coin person (I'm a kind of late beginner in card magic), so perhaps I was too quick to rule out gaffs. If there exist inexpensive-ish gaffs that would allow me to do what I describe, I'd certainly consider them, especially if they increase the ease of performing.


David, can you suggest any of your material that would be appropriate?


And atroc, I'd be interested to hear your ideas.


See you,


Bob
David Neighbors
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Hi Bob,
Let me look Trou my Stuff and see what is in print ! Smile
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David Neighbors
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Hi Bob I looked And I Have A reverse Matrix In my " next door neighbors " Notes Using 4 coins And a shell ! And one in my "Mile High notes " Using 4 coins, And a 2 coin gimmick ( 2 coins stuck together ) A PDF Is 20.00 For ether one ! You can E-mail me at coinjurer82@gmail.com Ok thanks so much ! Smile
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Bob G
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P. S. While I'm waiting to hear from David, I'm still curious whether anyone can recommend a gaff-free reverse matrix. Aldo Colombini has one called "Matrix for lazy people" in his book, The Close Up Magic of Also Colombini. It looks like it *might* be the sort of thing I'm looking for, but two factors are keeping me from learning it. First, I'm not sure whether the spectator sees all four coins at the end of the "forward" part.


Second and more important, RevJohn, in an old thread (https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=229867&forum=3), said that around step 8 he got stuck, and wondered if there was a mistake in the instructions. So I wonder if anyone is familiar with this effect of Colombini's and can tell me whether it works.


Thanks for your help,


Bob
karnak
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David, I’ve been trying to visit your website, but it keeps stalling out and then tries to redirect me to some other weirdly named website (not even a .com). I wonder if maybe a hacker has hijacked it, or something. Might want to have your webmaster check into it.
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
David Neighbors
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Ok I e-mailed Him about it ! We will see what he said's !
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Feral Chorus
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The New Simple Matrix by Dean Dill is very close to what you are looking for and the price is right. You see 3 coins collected before the backfire and no gaffs are involved.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5376
atroc
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Depending on the setting you might be able to utilize some extra coins + the gaff from impossible matrix?

Or if you're in a more parlour setting you could look into some bl**k magic on the other side of some thin coins?

Ryan Hayashi has a nice "backfire" mechanism that he used on Penn and Teller's Fool Us - I know you specifically don't want a "backfire" style.. but you can utilize the same mechanics he uses to move at least one or two of four coins in your effort to create your own method.
Ray Haining
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Essentially, what you want to do is show four coins under a card, then replace the card and have three of those four coins instantly vanish at once. That's tough.
David Neighbors
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Just working On some ungaffed Reverse Handleings ! But yea all 4 show And Reverse With just 4 coins is A lot of work going on ! But a little less Work if you use a 5 th. Coin! But the more gaff you go the less work it is !!! Smile O well you get what you pay for !!! Smile
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Bob G
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Hi People,


For some reason I didn't (yet) get an email notification of your posts from today Thursday). Fortunately I decided on a whim to look at this thread and found all these replies.


So... first, let me share with you the little story I had in mind to go with Matrix; perhaps the story would give people more experienced than I am with Matrix (which is Everyone) some ideas for the best way to go. Four boys (the coins) live in houses (the four cards) at the four corners of a plaza. Three of the boys want to stay overnight at the fourth boy's house, but none of their parents will allow it. Three of the boys manage to sneak over to the fourth house and they all have their sleepover despite their parents' objections (that's the forward part). The parents have heard a lot of giggling and are suspicious. But when they go into the boys' bedrooms early the next morning, they find that each boy is in his own house, fast asleep. (That's the reverse part.)


If, as David suggests, the effect becomes easier with extra hidden coins or with gaffs, then I should certainly consider it. Extra coins is no problem. If a gaff, then I'd want something commonly available and not too expensive -- a shell?. And perhaps a gaff or extra coins would allow me to show the four "coins" together as I want to and then make them suddenly appear back under their own cards?


If not, then I'll have to settle for a "backfire" routine.


FeralChorus, I've recently started to become acquainted with Dean Dill's work, and wow, I'm impressed. So it's a no-brainer to spring for the video you referenced.


Atroc, do you have any links or other references to Impossible Matrix and Hayashi's routine?


And David, as I mentioned in our email correspondence, I'm certainly not ruling out your routine with the shell. I just need some more info. For instance, does it have a backfire? -- or does the audience get to see four (alleged) coins together. And it would be *really* nice to see a video of the routine so that I have a sense of what it looks like. For that matter, if you succeed in coming up with something new that uses a fifth (or sixth, why not?) coin, I'd be interested in hearing about it (and paying for it if you decide to publish it and it seems to meet my needs). I also need to look into the price of shells or whatever other gimmicks people suggest.


One last question: Bill Tarr, on p. 94 of Now You See it Now You Don't, says, don't fall into the trap of thinking that gaffed coins are easier than pure sleight of hand. He writes: "On the contrary. Anyone who has ever tried to slip an English penny into a shell half dollar silently can attest to the degree of skill (and practice) required)" Any thoughts about that? Are his remarks relevant to Matrix?


Okay, folks, thanks for all your help and have a good evening.


Bob
David Neighbors
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You ask does it have a Backfire ? I have all Ways Thought of A backfire ( As coming from the Card world! As 3 coins Jumping To join One ??? ) And it is what I have called it for the last 30 years ! As for putting it in print !I don't write up my own stuff ! So I have to get some to Write stuff up for Me ! So it is much Better for me To get a set of notes Put together Then one thing ! Smile Put Yea I worked A four Coin reverse As well as one with 5 Th. Coin Tonight ! And I have someone Who Sometimes Video's Stuff for me om Mondays Nights At our Hard Core meeting's ! So I will see If he has time to do that And post it Here or on Facebook ! Ok so that is All that's fit to print Right Now !!! Smile
David Neighbors



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Degio
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A routine worth considering is Akira Fujii's FlashBack Matrix: only 4 cards and 4 regular coins are used.
The same with David Regal's Four Plus Four (from his book Close-up and Personal).
With an extra coin, you can do Aurelio Paviato's Reverse Matrix (from his World Champion Coin Act).
These are just examples of great reverse matrix routines that do not use shells.
But in these three cases, you never get to see 4 coins under one card: you only see max 3, then you vanish the last coin and, as a surprise, rather than having all 4 together, you have the instant reverse condition. A change in your excellent patter would be required.
For a longer list of routines, just search Denis Behr fantastic conjuring archive:
https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/se......e+matrix
Bob G
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Hi David,


I wrote a post to thank you, but I must have forgotten to hit "send." Anyway, I'll look forward to seeing your video if you have a chance to make it. I may have the terminology wrong, so let's forget the word "backfire." The point is that I'm hoping for a handling in which the spectators actually get to see all four cards assembled under one card, and then very quickly they return, so that there's just one coin under each card. I have no problem with using extra coins, and no problem with shells if I can afford them and learn to work with them.



And Degio,


Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the compliment about my patter. It may be that I'm overestimating the importance of the spectators' seeing all four coins together. If anything, I'd think that the story would reinforce the idea that all four coins have assembled. I think my main problem is that I haven't tried Matrix at all, so I don't have a feeling for what would work best for me. So I'm glad to have a few more routines to look at -- thanks for that.


Oh, and yes: Denis Behr is doing a wonderful service for the magic community. Wow! -- what a lot of work it must be.


Bob
Bob G
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Hi again, atroc,


Has Hayashi published his routine?


Thanks,


Bob
David Neighbors
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Hi Bob,
Ok I see what I can Do ! Smile
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David Neighbors
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Hi karnak,

Just Talk to my web master! He said that my Site had Been Hacked And the Provider was Unresponsive ! Smile ( It you know What you Want you want E-mail at coinjurer82@gmail.com And I will see if I Can Help Or I can e-mail you a list ! Smile ) Ok thanks so much ! Smile
David Neighbors



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