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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Pretty much every cup and ball routine I've seen has going into the pockets with the small balls in order to load the final loads. I've never liked the idea of going into the pockets just before a final load. But, I've never seen a way to load a cup besides the way Tommy Wonder does it, going into the pockets, having a loader on your jacket, or lapping. Are there any ways to load a final load without going into the pocket (and the other methods I've described)?
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Leeman Special user Hollywood, CA 709 Posts |
You could have the items sleeved as long as they are not too big and you can keep your arms slightly bent to keep the loads from falling out. If you don't stack the cups you could have a chop cup type of effect and have the loads in the cups stuck to the top the entire time. This would really limit the effects that you could do with the cups but the final loads would be a surprise since you could show you hands empty the entire time.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Yes there are other methods. The pocket stuff is kind of modern and also limiting. The older methods in the older books are more magical, though not appropriate for instant-reset and walk-around shows. Clever folks have set up servantes and loaders to manage the traffic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5444 Posts |
There are several routines in print that don’t use the pockets for final loads.
Check out Scotty York’s “X-Rated Cups and Balls” (so called because you can do it nude! That is, without pockets!). Or perhaps check out Bob Farmers very clever “Cyclops” a one-ball cups and balls routine that requires no pockets or lapping. Then there is Mike Rogers’ version that does exactly what Mr. Townsend suggests and used a shelf Servante’ for the final loads. Along the same idea is a routine published in Blackstone’s (Sr.) “Secrets of Magic” (ghostwritten by Walter Gibson) that uses a small box as the performing area with the loads sitting behind the box. Eddie Joseph published a couple of booklets on the Cups and Balls which included a number of routines that did not use pockets or laps for loads. I could go on and on but you get the idea. My library has over a dozen routines that are pocket-less cups and balls routines. Start looking and you will find many, many good, strong, magical routines designed for the stand-up performer using no pockets at all! The fun is in the quest.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
You could use a load ball that was magnetic and could attach to the bottom of a table where a magnet was attached. You could steal the load from the edge of your jacket from a ball holder. Use your imagination. There are probably some great ideas you'll come up with if you try. Think "out of the box," or for that matter, inside the cup.
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
I saw a guy who had baseballs behind his table so he didn't go into his pockets at all, just reached a little bit down (completely natural) and had his load.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Terry Holley Inner circle 1805 Posts |
Don't pass up Harry Murphy's recommendation of Scotty York's routine ("X-Rated Cups and Balls").
A number of years ago I had the opportunity to spend some time with Dan Korem, and I asked him for a C&B routine recommendation. He immediately replied, "Scotty York's X-Rated." I immediately purchased it! Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
David, Reed McClintock's cup and ball routine is published as part of the "Defiance" series. One of the main goals in his routine was to eliminate any effects involving things moving unseen from the pockets to the cups. Sort of gives it away, don't you think?
The loads are covered in a different way, partly through the physical routining, and partly through cultivation of an attitude. But there are no "balls from pocket to cups" effects. There are lots of other innovative ideas in the routine, as well.
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I'll second that, having seen Reed do it a few times.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I was under the impression that Scotty's routine was developed to fool magicians who were familiar with Vernon's. Couldn't it be that it is less convincing for a lay audience because they don't share the same assumptions magician's have regarding the effect?
Just wondering. Interesting idea might be using tabled stuff to use as final loads, kind of like Tommy's work. I once did this while performing on a pool-table at a private party. I loaded two of my final loads and stole the third (an eight-ball) from the table. Got a great reaction, but I never worked out the idea.
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
magia355 Regular user Virginia, USA 172 Posts |
In my cups and ball routine, I have my final loads behind the table. I used ball clips to hold them in place. It works great, and the loads are well hidden behind the table.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
If you work silent, you can always keep a couple of loads in your mouth. Kinda sloppy to work with, though!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
There is a table top custom made that has elevators and star traps that will load giant cups with huge load balls or grapefruits, whatever. Saw it at WMS last year.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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davidmagic Veteran user Lubbock, TX, USA 340 Posts |
You could start out with one load already loaded. Check out Alex Elmsley's wonderful routine with a cup filled with salt as a climax. To go one step further, he even has that one cup of salt fill all three cups with salt as the ultimate finish. This is in print in one of his two tomes.
David |
meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
The final final (no typo) loads in David Reagal's routine don't involve going into the pocket's. This can be found on The Complete Magic Of David Regal vol. 1 (I think).
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Most of us wear jackets to formal occasions, and many of us have learned to use ball droppers and clips for billiards routines. So... when wearing a jacket... it's a no brainier. That includes the Gertner loads.
Now let's consider the modern sleeves up no jacket problem. This is a bit more involved and requires some access to pockets. These can be easily set up on or about a chair at the table, or your jacket, case, ... not a biggie either. So... what specifically is the problem that this is such a puzzle? Where are we getting stuck?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Use less cups for less loads. I don't see the problem. Vernon used his rear trouser pockets. If you sit, use your lap. Think outside the coat, box, brain. Hang 'em on threads off the back of your mat. Build star traps in your pants legs.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-10 01:51, Pete Biro wrote: Something like that is featured in Michael Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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