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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » MENTAL DICE by Tony Anverdi (237 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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saysold1
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Fascinating conversation. Jon T thank you for your comments and insight. Your knowledge of the history is always deep and helpful. Crediting does matter and should matter.
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Magic Mark
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For those that haven't been paying attention to what is happening with regard to electronic dice, see GoDice at Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/192......imagined

For $69 you get 6 rechargeable electronic dice that communicate with your IOS or Android device via Bluetooth.

Who should get "credited" for those?

Mark
saysold1
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Mark you’re asking a bit of a goofy question.

A creator *should* at a minimum TRY do their very best to credit As thoroughly as possible, when they can. And when it’s appropriate they should make an effort to get permission from the creator, and as I said when it’s appropriate. This has been a fundamental tenet within the Magic community for decades. There are many great resources, and Max Maven, Jeff McBride and Ross Johnson (among others) have been a huge help for me when (and if) I needed to seek some help on deeper history.

Your question makes no sense.
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Magic Mark
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I believe that ProMystic was the first magic company to offer a 'Mental Die' type of product that was, arguably, inspired by Anverdi's idea. I don't know if ProMystic has ever commented about the inspiration for their product. (Side note: Anverdi was also first with Color Match!)

Marc Antoine's contribution to Anverdi's 'Mental Die' was to use 3 dice. When Marc introduced his product there were a number of people on this forum that were quite indignant over Marc "ripping off" ProMystic's idea.

Now Murphy's has released a 3 dice version and we have some folks that are apparently unhappy about Murphy's "ripping off" Marc Antoine.

The way I see it, they ALL owe credit to Anverdi. So far, it appears that Murphy's is the only one giving that credit. As the Anverdi rights holder since 2010, Murphy's could have been real difficult about it and pursued legal action against other companies. They didn't.

And along the theme of "ripping off" other's ideas... Take note that Marc Antoine is now offering an "Easy Box" (on/off box) with this latest version of Mental Dice. It's a magnetic storage box for the 3 dice that automatically turns the dice on and off when they are removed or replaced in the box. Now, wander over to the ProMystic website and take at look at the magnetic storage box that PM has been including with their Real Die product since before Marc's new Easy Box. Who's "ripping off" who?

What I do know is it appears Murphy's has created a superlative version of Mental Dice that addresses a couple of the more significant shortcomings of Marc's version. Namely, rechargeable dice and automatic dice power on/off when the receiver is turned on/off. And Murphy's is offering it at a significantly lower price.

Build a better mousetrap and the world....

Someday (maybe soon), someone will come along with an even better and even less expensive version?! How difficult can it be for someone to take a set of GoDice and create a dedicated thumper receiver?

Mark
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, Magic Mark wrote:
I believe that ProMystic was the first magic company to offer a 'Mental Die' type of product that was, arguably, inspired by Anverdi's idea. I don't know if ProMystic has ever commented about the inspiration for their product. (Side note: Anverdi was also first with Color Match!)

Marc Antoine's contribution to Anverdi's 'Mental Die' was to use 3 dice. When Marc introduced his product there were a number of people on this forum that were quite indignant over Marc "ripping off" ProMystic's idea.

Now Murphy's has released a 3 dice version and we have some folks that are apparently unhappy about Murphy's "ripping off" Marc Antoine.

The way I see it, they ALL owe credit to Anverdi. So far, it appears that Murphy's is the only one giving that credit. As the Anverdi rights holder since 2010, Murphy's could have been real difficult about it and pursued legal action against other companies. They didn't.

And along the theme of "ripping off" other's ideas... Take note that Marc Antoine is now offering an "Easy Box" (on/off box) with this latest version of Mental Dice. It's a magnetic storage box for the 3 dice that automatically turns the dice on and off when they are removed or replaced in the box. Now, wander over to the ProMystic website and take at look at the magnetic storage box that PM has been including with their Real Die product since before Marc's new Easy Box. Who's "ripping off" who?

What I do know is it appears Murphy's has created a superlative version of Mental Dice that addresses a couple of the more significant shortcomings of Marc's version. Namely, rechargeable dice and automatic dice power on/off when the receiver is turned on/off. And Murphy's is offering it at a significantly lower price.

Build a better mousetrap and the world....

Someday (maybe soon), someone will come along with an even better and even less expensive version?! How difficult can it be for someone to take a set of GoDice and create a dedicated thumper receiver?

Mark


I don't recall PM ever referencing Anverdi. I think dice of this nature is kind of a "well duh" type idea with the only question being how to implement the idea (as in creating the method for the idea).

It's an odd thing in magic where people fight over crediting on very very very basic ideas such as "what if I can know what you rolled on a die without me seeing it." It more or less comes down to the implementation of the method to achieve the idea that really has any merit for crediting, etc.
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Ok, I got my review finished - wow 18 minutes apparently I had a lot to say, HEY - don't be alarmed by the reader "flashing" in my video - that is how my phone processes the screen - the actual receiver does not do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3RvpGg300
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Will a facebook group be started.

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IAIN
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I hope not, most are dreadful...
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Magic Mark
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote:
Ok, I got my review finished - wow 18 minutes apparently I had a lot to say, HEY - don't be alarmed by the reader "flashing" in my video - that is how my phone processes the screen - the actual receiver does not do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3RvpGg300


Great job (again), David! Thank you for what you do!!


Hocus-Pocus shipped my set this afternoon. It should be here by Friday.

Mark
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There have been a lot of "Mental Die" type products...

Mental Die - Anverdi 1977
Radio Wave - Dice Yn-Ching Peng 1999
Mental Dice - Labco Magic 2003
Cube Rotation - Uncredited Aug 2006
Remote Vision Color Cube - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007
Remote Vision Die - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007
Remote Cubed 3000 - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007
Impossible Die Prediction - Jam Magic 2007
Electronic die 2 - Chuck Caputo 2007
Electric Psychic Die - Indomagic 2008
Multi-Dimensional - ProMystic 2008
Die Lema - JB Magic 2009
Duel1 - Tim Wisseman 2009
Mini Cube - JB Magic 2010
Magic Dice Prediction - King Magic Oct 2011
rvPhotocube - Steve Skindell Feb 2013
Dice Prediction - Hatiro Nishiguchi Aug 2014
Master Die - Master-Miracles 2014
Real Die - ProMystic 2014
Real Die Rechargeable - ProMystic 2014
Mysticube - eStooge Oct 2014
Cube - Hugo Shelley March 2015
MentalDice - Marc Antoine 2017
Unifi Dice - Illuminati Magic 2017
Mental Dice - Murphy’s Magic 2019

Nathan at Illuminati put this list together, and I have updated it with things I know were missing. Not meant to be comprehensive, although it is probably pretty close.
Magic Mark
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One other thing that bears mentioning/emphasis... I mentioned above that I purchased my Antoine Mental Dice secondhand. One of the dice arrived with a chip in the finish. Marc Antoine demonstrated superlative customer service and replaced that die for no charge. I didn't have to pay for shipping nor did Marc require me to ship the damaged die back to him. I remain extremely grateful for that courtesy. Particularly because, even though I purchased them secondhand, I still paid fairly close to retail price for my Antoine Mental Dice at the beginning of this year.

For Antoine's never version of Mental Dice, he told me that he had to change manufacturers of the dice and said that's why the Antoine dice are now 1mm smaller. Presumably, the problem with chipping is one of the primary reasons Marc changed manufacturers.

And chipping *is* a real concern with the original Antoine Mental Dice. One of my magician buddies also has an original Antoine set and he told me that all 3 of them have tiny chips in the finish at the corners. I remember Marc cautions against rolling the dice inside a hard cup or with each other (hopefully, not an issue with his latest version).

So, it's probably not a coincidence that Murphy's blurb for the Anverdi Mental Dice specifically states: "Like regular dice, they can be rolled together or in a cup without worries of chipping them."

Mark
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Great review as always David.
Can"t wait to get my set.
Todd
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, Chollet wrote:
There have been a lot of "Mental Die" type products...

. . . . . . .

. . . . . . .

. . . . . . .

. . . . . . .

Nathan at Illuminati put this list together, and I have updated it with things I know were missing. Not meant to be comprehensive, although it is probably pretty close.


Thanks for the updated list.

Hey, you forgot THIS man's dice. Smile

OKay, never mind, forget it Smile Smile Smile

Smile
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saysold1
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote:
Ok, I got my review finished - wow 18 minutes apparently I had a lot to say, HEY - don't be alarmed by the reader "flashing" in my video - that is how my phone processes the screen - the actual receiver does not do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3RvpGg300

Great work as always David. Thank you
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Phatmeat
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote:
The lifespan on these dice is anyone's guess, I asked Murphy's that same question and the answer I was given was "forever." The amount of performances per single charge is actually much higher than what is advertised.


I’m skeptical the Mental Dice will last “forever,” especially if they use batteries. The PM RD Standard, which has a battery, is advertised as having a 10 year lifespan. The RDR on the other hand is advertised as having a 40 year lifespan, although I’ve been told it should technically last forever because it uses a capacitor and not a battery.
Ustaad
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Don't think or bother about the immortal life of the batteries. Before the batteries dies, the electronics (one of the electronic component) will fail before that - sooner or later. Nothing is immortal including we the 'Great Magicians'.Smile

So enjoy and make good use of such electronic props till they work good.

Smile
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IAIN
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Mines arrived just now. Very impressed. Will have a play tonight. What I will say though, is that the dice look great and importantly have the same click-clack sound when shook. My concern was they'd sound hollow or odd.
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I politely doubt that Tony Anverdi was in 1979 the first with such a kind of "mental dice"! I'm sure he knew about other creations. We are speaking about the 1970s. Such tricks were on vogue.
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Then find evidence and share it...
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