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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 15, 2019 05:42 pm
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Not to be difficult, but it was on the list.
Why was it removed from the list and why do you agree with this decision?
I support maintaining the status quo.
Why do you support the change? Why is it necessary?
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 15, 2019 10:41 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Not to be difficult, but it was on the list.
Why was it removed from the list and why do you agree with this decision?
I support maintaining the status quo.
Why do you support the change? Why is it necessary?
The article I posted doesn’t state why it was removed from the list, but this one does:
https://www.marijuanamoment.net/mlb-offi......players/
Quote: The cannabis change reflects an attempt to modernize the league’s drug policy as more states move to enact legalization.
Additionally, players will be required to participate in educational programs on “the dangers of opioid pain medications and practical approaches to marijuana.” The programs will focus on “evidence-based and health-first approaches based on reputable science and sound principles of public health and safety.”
In agreeing to these modifications to the Program, MLB and the MLBPA continue to favor a treatment-based approach to Drugs of Abuse, with a particular emphasis on protecting Players from lethal and addictive substances, and providing effective and confidential care and support to Players who need it, MLB said.
I support the change because a) I agree with MLB and the Players Union that marijuana-related conduct should “be treated like alcohol-related conduct and subject to a treatment program that includes mandatory evaluation and voluntary treatment”, while retaining “the potential of discipline for certain conduct involving marijuana”, and b) it’s pretty obvious by now that marijuana is not the menace that some make it out to be. Alcohol and tobacco are arguably much worse. Anyway, when players start dying or spiraling out of control from smoking some weed, then I’ll be on board with stricter pot policies.
Why do you support maintaining the status quo? What’s the worst that could happen now that MLB has re-categorized marijuana? What measurable negative impacts are you predicting for the game of baseball and/or the players?
Ron
PS - Mind you, I say all this as a non pot smoker myself. In fact, I have never - not even once in my entire life (and I grew up in the 70s), ever smoked pot or taken any drugs whatsoever, lest you think I am endorsing my own lifestyle. In fact, I would encourage people NOT to smoke cigarettes. Or drink alcohol. Or smoke pot. Or ride motorcycles without helmets. But at the same time I understand that people can engage responsibly in some activities that I have no interest in. And it doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Stigmatizing and punishing people (including baseball players) for responsibly smoking some pot is simply unwarranted, in my opinion.
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle
Eternal Order
21219 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2019 12:43 am
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Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Did you?
I'll ask again: Are the players allowed to test positive for cocaine?
Why would they? Cocaine is not marijuana.
Correct. Nobody implied it was. Are you implying one is worse than the other? Is one better? What's your point?
I am ABSOLUTELY saying one is worse than the other. They are two different drugs with two VERY different affects.
ALL that happened was a "substance" was REMOVED from the list. It did NOTHING to the other substances STILL ON the list.
Now are you trying to make some sort of point with the questions or are you being intentionally obtuse? You are intelligent. You are nobodies fool. So if you have a point please make it instead of trying to slow walk us to it.
Fair enough.
Heres a question, You mentioned that pot was not a performance enhancing drug- you felt, and I agree, that was relevant. Is cocaine considered a performance enhancing drug?
I honestly don't know.
And I'm all too aware of the differences between cocaine and pot. I was trying to find out what Ed is talking about.
To oversimplify coke speeds you up, pot slows you down.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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landmark
Inner circle
within a triangle
5194 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2019 04:30 am
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A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2019 01:10 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle
Eternal Order
21219 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2019 04:21 pm
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I think it is simply to provide a level playing field.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2019 09:47 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
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ed rhodes
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2885 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 12:26 am
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Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote: On Dec 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Did you?
I'll ask again: Are the players allowed to test positive for cocaine?
Why would they? Cocaine is not marijuana.
Correct. Nobody implied it was. Are you implying one is worse than the other? Is one better? What's your point?
I am ABSOLUTELY saying one is worse than the other. They are two different drugs with two VERY different affects.
ALL that happened was a "substance" was REMOVED from the list. It did NOTHING to the other substances STILL ON the list.
Now are you trying to make some sort of point with the questions or are you being intentionally obtuse? You are intelligent. You are nobodies fool. So if you have a point please make it instead of trying to slow walk us to it.
Fair enough.
Heres a question, You mentioned that pot was not a performance enhancing drug- you felt, and I agree, that was relevant. Is cocaine considered a performance enhancing drug?
I honestly don't know.
And I'm all too aware of the differences between cocaine and pot. I was trying to find out what Ed is talking about.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. Let me try again.
MLB is removing marijuana from it's list of controlled substances.
You asked if players could test positive for cocaine.
What I wasn't apparently clear enough about was;
Why would removing marijuana from the controlled substance list have any affect on the position the MLB takes on cocaine?
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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ed rhodes
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2885 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 12:28 am
1
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
Cigarettes, pipes, cigars or "chaw" are not currently on the list of substances, they apparently are more dangerous to your health than marijuana.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 01:42 am
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
An excessive amount of anything (even water) can bring about health concerns. But I'd think most people would have to injest quite a bit of pot over time to realize any serious negative effects. And fatal marijuana overdoses are unheard of. So I think the health concerns are overstated. Again, marijuana has been unfairly demonized ever since the "Reefer Madness" hype of the 1930's, and some of that sentiment still persists to this day. In fact, check out this hilarious original trailer for the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0
So why do you support maintaining the status quo? What’s the worst that could happen now that MLB has re-categorized marijuana? What measurable negative impacts are you predicting for the game of baseball and/or the players?
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 03:53 am
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
Cigarettes, pipes, cigars or "chaw" are not currently on the list of substances, they apparently are more dangerous to your health than marijuana.
Says who?
Smoking anything is bad for you.
Inhaling smoke is bad for your lungs and organs.
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 04:07 am
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
An excessive amount of anything (even water) can bring about health concerns. But I'd think most people would have to injest quite a bit of pot over time to realize any serious negative effects. And fatal marijuana overdoses are unheard of. So I think the health concerns are overstated. Again, marijuana has been unfairly demonized ever since the "Reefer Madness" hype of the 1930's, and some of that sentiment still persists to this day. In fact, check out this hilarious original trailer for the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0
So why do you support maintaining the status quo? What’s the worst that could happen now that MLB has re-categorized marijuana? What measurable negative impacts are you predicting for the game of baseball and/or the players?
Ron
We need water to live .
Please don't compare smoke inhalation to life giving fresh water.
I used to like a j here and there too but let's keep things in perspective.
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 04:09 am
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
An excessive amount of anything (even water) can bring about health concerns. But I'd think most people would have to injest quite a bit of pot over time to realize any serious negative effects. And fatal marijuana overdoses are unheard of. So I think the health concerns are overstated. Again, marijuana has been unfairly demonized ever since the "Reefer Madness" hype of the 1930's, and some of that sentiment still persists to this day. In fact, check out this hilarious original trailer for the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0
So why do you support maintaining the status quo? What’s the worst that could happen now that MLB has re-categorized marijuana? What measurable negative impacts are you predicting for the game of baseball and/or the players?
Ron
I don't expect any negative effects on baseball , just as I wouldn't if Cocaine had been removed from the list.
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 01:29 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
We need water to live .
Please don't compare smoke inhalation to life giving fresh water.
I used to like a j here and there too but let's keep things in perspective.
I’m not comparing the two. My point is that dosage matters.
So, you used to like a “J” here and there. Good for you. I’m sure you are not a criminal. Or an addict. And you didn’t lose your mind. And you probably aren’t suffering any pot-related health issues. So then why can’t baseball players (who have a vested interest in staying healthy and performing at the major league level) also responsibly enjoy a j here and there too? Who are you to curtail their enjoyment when you did the exact same thing? Let’s keep things in perspective. And less draconian when it comes to pot.
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 01:37 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote: On Dec 16, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote: On Dec 15, 2019, landmark wrote:
A question: is the purpose of the drug testing done by the MLB to discourage performance enhancing drugs that would lead to unfair outcomes, or to protect the health of their valued employees?
Seems to me that they are two different purposes, and hence would have two different approaches.
Good question. I would say the answer nowadays is both. No doubt that the recent opioid related death of pitcher Tyler Skaggs put an emphasis on health concerns.
And since marijuana is neither a performance enhancer nor much of a health concern (in fact, it may have some health benefits), it makes sense to re-categorize it.
Ron
Burning things and deliberately inhaling the byproduct most certainly DOES come with health concerns.
An excessive amount of anything (even water) can bring about health concerns. But I'd think most people would have to injest quite a bit of pot over time to realize any serious negative effects. And fatal marijuana overdoses are unheard of. So I think the health concerns are overstated. Again, marijuana has been unfairly demonized ever since the "Reefer Madness" hype of the 1930's, and some of that sentiment still persists to this day. In fact, check out this hilarious original trailer for the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0
So why do you support maintaining the status quo? What’s the worst that could happen now that MLB has re-categorized marijuana? What measurable negative impacts are you predicting for the game of baseball and/or the players?
Ron
I don't expect any negative effects on baseball , just as I wouldn't if Cocaine had been removed from the list.
So what's the problem? Who suffers (more so than before) because of MLB's decision to re-categorize pot?
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 02:30 pm
0
The players? Perhaps if it remains on the list they will engage in fewer instances of smoke inhalation and shorter or less frequent durations of impairment.
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 06:28 pm
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Quote: On Dec 17, 2019, magicfish wrote:
The players? Perhaps if it remains on the list they will engage in fewer instances of smoke inhalation and shorter or less frequent durations of impairment.
When you smoked pot did the fact that it was illegal and/or discouraged stop you from engaging in the activity? What makes you think that having it on a list will prevent baseball players from doing it? And what “impairment” are you talking about? Getting high? What about the potential benefits, like stress-reduction, chronic pain relief, combating depression and anxiety, etc.?
And to reiterate, MLB is by no means endorsing marijuana usage. They intend to treat it like “alcohol-related conduct and subject to a treatment program that includes mandatory evaluation and voluntary treatment”, while retaining “the potential of discipline for certain conduct involving marijuana.” What’s unreasonable about that?
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 06:45 pm
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Illegality has nothing to do with it. It's about livelihood. A substance that prevents you from working can deter one from using it. For example, in the Oil Sands or in Nuclear. Marijuana is legal in Canada but it is on a banned substance list by my employers.
As far as health benefits go, that's going nowhere. I believe it is more harmful than helpful. Unless you are terminally ill I suppose, but a terminally Ill short stop wouldnt care about the list.
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R.S.
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
184 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2019 09:35 pm
0
Quote: On Dec 17, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Illegality has nothing to do with it. It's about livelihood. A substance that prevents you from working can deter one from using it. For example, in the Oil Sands or in Nuclear. Marijuana is legal in Canada but it is on a banned substance list by my employers.
As far as health benefits go, that's going nowhere. I believe it is more harmful than helpful. Unless you are terminally ill I suppose, but a terminally Ill short stop wouldnt care about the list.
You still haven’t said what’s unreasonable about MLB’s change in policy. What should MLB be doing above and beyond treating pot usage as alcohol-related conduct and subjecting it to a treatment program that includes mandatory evaluation and voluntary treatment while still subjecting players to possible disciplinary action?
And what do you believe are the ill effects of smoking pot that outweigh the benefits that I mentioned (chronic pain relief, stress-reduction, combating depression and anxiety, etc.)? What ill effects did you suffer that were so bad?
Here are some statistics:
- Yearly U.S. alcohol deaths = approx.. 88,000 (and in 2009, alcohol-related liver disease was the primary cause of almost 1 in 3 liver transplants in the United States)
- Yearly worldwide tobacco deaths = approx. 7 million
- Yearly U.S. Cocaine related deaths = approx.. 10,000
- Yearly fatal Marijuana overdoses = 0
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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magicfish
Inner circle
7006 Posts
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Posted: Dec 18, 2019 12:31 am
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"What should MLB be doing above and beyond treating pot usage as alcohol-related conduct and subjecting it to a treatment program that includes mandatory evaluation and voluntary treatment while still subjecting players to possible disciplinary action?"
Ummm, I dunno. Maybe keeping it on the list?
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