I’m being facetious, here. Want to make that clear from the start. But there is something that really makes me think.

I’m a big fan of Jim Henson. I’ve been watching a lot of videos of him and his creations lately on Y’tube. We all know he was not a ventriloquist, and didn’t even claim to be. But when he was live before an audience with Kermit or any of the other muppets..even DESPITE the fact that he moved his lips, the illusion of life was still there. Kermit seemed very much alive in his hands! The audiences ate it up and loved every minute, and somehow were still able to suspend disbelief and no one even CARED that Henson’s lips were moving. It never once detracted from the magic.

I can only say Jim was a genius! He had a special magic. Same went for Frank Oz.

My point is we spend a lot of time perfecting our craft, minimizing lip movement, and yet it all seems to be obviated by what Jim and Frank did. It’s almost like people don’t care. But on the other hand, they do care, because a ventriloquist whose lips move (with the exception of Edgar Bergen) can quickly elicit snide remarks and or boos.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Why are we wasting our time?

Again i’m being facetious. But it really is food for thought.

It's the difference between a puppeteer and a ventriloquist.



Disclaimer: I'm not a ventriloquist and do all my work on a green screen with a lot of editing.

Henson had the opportunity to create a character that people/children viewed independent of his presence. So, basically we came to know and love Kermit.

Seeing him perform and moving his lips doesn't change that Kermit (who we know) is right there. We dispel out disbelief every time we go watch a movie and embrace Jedi's, Mutants, and Superheroes.

We didn't care that we could see Kermit's arm rods when he waved his hands, or that his eyes were fixed.

If the movement of the puppet, his character, and even the expression of the Vent. and ALL is entertaining - who cares if there's lip movement. Even the STIFF jawed Vent, if ENTERTAINING -Audience laughing, who's watching the handler. REMEMBERING - it has to be ENTERTAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s definitely a key, there. As I mentioned, remember Edgar Bergen.

Again, evidence of his genius.

This thread is like beaten a dead horse again and again.

If your lips move when the puppet talk, don't claim yourself as a ventriloquist, please call yourself as a puppeteer.
Why you have to insist that you are a ventriloquist and not a puppeteer? Puppeteer is get well respect too from the audience, same as ventriloquist.

If you are very entertaining and audience is laughing until rolling on the floor, but still moving you lips while using a puppet, then you also can claim as a comic or a stand up comedian, but please don't claim yourself as ventriloquist.

Edgar Bergen had a good still lips before he has to do radio show and film, said the old birds. So he is a ventriloquist.
Have you see Jimmy Nelson or Paul Winchell, were their lips moving when Danny O Day or Jerry Mahoney talked? They are ventriloquists.
How about Jeff Dunham, Terry Fator & Darci Lynne? They are ventriloquists too.

Ventriloquist is a belly talker period.

Knowing Edgar B. in person, plus others, including few you mentioned - All didn't ALWAYS have lip control - but they were all considered Ventriloquists.

Didn't ALWAYS have lip control, mean they have lips control, so correct they were all considered as Ventriloquist.

Now both Ventriloquist AND figure can have lip movement - both wear Virus Masks L=O=L

Henson said it himself."no one pays any attention to the man with the beard."..................

Alone during the virus - am I going MAD ?? - find myself holding conversations with my Figures, Rusty, Cissy, Leo, Louie, and Ist one (Mom bought me 67 years ago) ,Andy (orig. Jerry Mahoney) - L-O-L ha ha ha ha -- I AM MAD

Only one of mine is talking to me... the other 14 are too busy silently judging me.

You are MAD - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - get me out of this jacket

Wayland Flowers was another example of a great puppeteer.

Madam had a non PC way of pointing that out.

I was not aware there was a Department of Licensing for Ventriloquists and Puppeteers. Do they send out roving bands of officials to determine if you claim to be a ventriloquist and yet your lips move? And do they hang a sign around your neck proclaiming you are really a puppeteer? Oh dear. Or worse, do they confiscate your vent? I need to discuss this with my vent, Clancy.

? ?? - the only Licensing I heard of - is when I was doing a series of show at a Church Carnival. After one of the shows - a person asked for my Licence- (County Clerk)- Why? I asked- Your getting paid for these shows aren't you? -Yes (50-50) Being paid -is a Business -giving me an official ticket said Come to my office with your books - I did( keep books for tax) - Fined $50. ea. for the last 3 years and $50.for current year. And if I don't keep it up ea.year - possible Jail. Telling him I knew of several performers -don't have Licences - report them he said - I THOUGHT -"NEVER".

Good heavens. What police state do you live in?

It was 50 years ago, in Los Angeles, Calif., the premise was, anyone being paid for a Job, was in Business and needed a Business Licence. He even said baby sitters,shoe shine Kids, etc. but they didn't bother them. I think the Pony Ride Owner turned me in as kids were coming to my Show, not his rides. Oh well I got all back in Income Tax- also Wife and I produced 1000's of Magic shows,for 10 years, in L.A. With the stipulation the Magicians we gave Shows to(yes gave-as I only asked them for $5. for contract postage and phone calls-No commission which could have been 20%)they would be working under Our Licence ,saving them the cost -20-30 Fellow Magicians. Plus We also got/did Shows also, to do. Ahhhh Memories. Ralph (russo) ROUSSEAU

California. Why does that not surprise me (and I have many family members who live there).

Ventriloquism, like magic, requires that the audience engage in a willing suspension of disbelief. The important thing is that the audience is entertained. When you watch a marionette show, does it bother you that you can see the puppet's strings?

----- Sonny