Joe said it for all of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good job man!

koz

Mr. Turner, who posted the now deleated post on Cellini being late in Alanta has now posted a follow-up. Check it out at:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......31&0

Turner is true to his word and has tried to provide a blanace to his discussion.

I suspect that this was like the old "telephone" gag. Tell a story to the first person in a chain of people and by the time the story reaches the last person it is totally different!

As usual, the intelligence of someone like Harry was needed here. Harry, thanks for supplying that link for us!!!!

Chris

I personally don't own any of his DVDs, and I have not seen any of them. But just last weekend, he gave a lecture for IBM ring 199, and he was amazing. His linking rings was beautiful, and his street magic act was astonishing. If his DVDs are anything like he was in person, I'd say get them!

Hahahaha!
For the intellectually deficient: Opinions are personal interpretations, and therefore cannot be right or wrong, fact or fiction. It's like religion, okay? If Ted thinks Cellini is God, and Giochi doesn't believe in "God", he's a Buddhist...that doesn't make him wrong. So you freaks really should get off his case and take your Holy war somewhere else, because it's not productive, it's pathetic.

Kissthecaptain, please take your medication before posting.

When someone has an Opinion that isn't based on facts, then it's wrong and should be given the right attention so everyone knows what's going on.

<<Opinions are personal interpretations, and therefore cannot be right or wrong>>

True, but in my opinion you are wrong

Whatever happened to freedom of speech???

If someone agrees or disagrees, do they not have the right to say so?

Freedom of speech only means THE GOVERNMENT is not allowed to shut us up...SOooooo, both/all of you guys are free to disagree til your heart's content..... enjoy.

No one is going to get much slack being critical of a Master Magi like Cellini. It's like saying vernon was over rated.

An amiable solution was reached. The "facts" seem to have been selectively reported here.

In my world, if I show up late and my client isn't there, it's incumbent upon me to find out what happened and not go AWOL for four days.

I have tried to do the honorable thing here BOTH TIMES, which is to advocate for professional lecturer conduct AND to include a positive follow-up for the "apology tour" lecture, which I *did* attend. For someone who wanted "the facts," it is telling that nobody contacted me to get "the facts" about that. I think that speaks volumes about whether "the facts" are truly important.

I'll also note the positive review I gave Mr. Cellini's DVD in Genii Magazine some months ago. I have no personal quarrel at all with him, nor have I challenged his talent, although some have interpreted my honest recounting of his reliability on the occasion of his Atlanta lecture as a challenge to his talent. If those folks are intellectually incapable of seeing the difference, then nothing anyone says here will be understood by them anyway.

As for losing shows due to fears about reliability, then welcome to the real world. We *all* risk our reputations when we fail to live up to agreements in the client's eyes, whatever the circumstances. Free business hint: vanishing off the face of the earth for half a week after a problem occurs *doesn't* help the situation.

Clients talk. Personally, I think clubs should be MORE forthcoming about the good and the bad experiences they have with lecturers... as well as being willing to follow-up with positive results when and if they occur.

Best,
JMT

Cellini's is a magical genius. If Rembrandt missed an appointment to teach, would an artist ban him? Doubtful.

OT:

While this amounts to yet another off topic post , I'm putting it up anyway, in an effort to bring this back on topic, that being the review of Mr. Cellini's DVD's.

"To knock a professional magician because of some slip is so easy. Considering everything with which a magician must contend, the miracle is that there are not more slips. We must remember that our knock, if it gets talked about, may do far more harm to him than does his slip. Even in some magical publications there are writers who give slips prominent attention. They simply fail to realize the harm they are doing. Those notes may cost the performer dates, and, of course, thereby costing him money. Instances have been known where such notices cost other performers bookings. Many amateur magicians do not seem to realize that exposing a professional magician's frailties is even worse than exposing his tricks. He can always get other tricks, but he has only one reputation."
----quoted, without permission, from Tarbell 8, Lesson 92.

With due respect to all parties concerned, can we please return to the topic, and will those interested in bashing Mr. Cellini personally please take it elsewhere?

I'm *not* bashing Cellini. That's the whole point. Nobody is questioning his worth or value.

My posts about his earlier lecture "late" vs. "no-show" incident were not presented to the general public. They were for the very limited market of magicians. He is offering a very targeted product and his consumers have a right to have legitimate expectations about whether and how that product will be delivered.

I would certainly not go onto the street and try to badmouth Cellini. Actually, I haven't even badmouthed him to magicians. I've simply stated the facts that have been conveniently ignored and glossed over by others. Instead of addressing that, they simply throw out "he's an icon/genius/demigod" and subsequently suggest that *any* criticism is therefore invalid. While that shows sincere admiration, it ignores the facts. He was not presenting himself to us as an itinerant teacher, flying in and out on his whim. He was a contracted professional who had plenty of opportunity to be in touch with his agent or client to start addressing the issue instead of going into hiding for four days leaving no other recourse but speculation and wondering. To expect that such choices would have NO consequences is naive at best.

Finally, nobody suggested "banning" Cellini, Chris. Your technique of hyperbolizing what was actually said in order to create a strawman to knock down is really getting tedious. I think the apology appearance he gave was a worthwhile and reasonable response. I hope that you have checked out my report on that lecture.

I also hope, on topic, that my review of his DVDs which appeared in Genii has at least proven to some of you that my considerations of his artistry go beyond the incident about which some continue to nag me, even in my absence.

Best,
JMT

I just think you need to be more forgiving. Maybe everything has gone your way. But, if you ever run into car problems, etc. You'll see that **** happens.

Poindexter, nice work on the quote from Tarbell!!!!!

I am forgiving. Why wait 4 days to ask for forgiveness?

If I missed a gig, or was later than my already reported late arrival and there was nobody there, I'd be on the phone THAT NIGHT or first thing in the morning to start figuring out what went wrong. Why isn't it reasonable to expect that from anyone, even someone we idolize? I certainly don't think it's unforgiving to expect that people will start to speculate and discuss such an event, given the situation. Nobody wanted to hear that something bad had happened -- people were concerned for a variety of reasons.

I mentioned that Cellini was subsequently apologetic, and that the group involved was forgiving, including me. The lecture was very enjoyable and appreciated. I'm not sure where you're getting "unforgiveness" from, nor why this persistent turning of the issue back onto my personal characteristics rather than "the facts" of the matter.

Anyway, take care.

JMT

Ted doesn't seem to agree with the "fact" of what happened.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand:
Cellini's DVD's.
I have:
Cellini's lecture video
Art of street performing I video
Lord and Master of the rings
Magic that can be perfomed anywhere

These DVDs are excellent. Watching Cellini do magic on the street for that child was great. That is art.

Cellini doesn't do magic he IS magic. His soft demeanor
his delicate actions, awesome.

I have been using two effects from "Magic that can be done anywhere"
Devils hankerchief and Kaps coins in hankerchief.

What I love about these effects, is the seem like real magic. When you drop the corners of the silk the first time, the faces you get are such a reward.

Devils hankie is also great because it can go on and on if need be. the angles are great and it just doesn't seem possible that the coin is in your hands.

I want to start on the loopball but I can't find any balls that are acceptable.

Koz, do you sell Cellini's loopballs? he said in the DVD that "We sell them"

Also, Joe Karson's Chinese egg bag is really great.
The footage of Karson and Slydini are an extra bonus.

I will always buy this Masters DVDs because I feel magic is a craft, sometimes, if we are lucky, art is forthcoming. With Cellini, art is as natural as walking.

Cheers,
James
ps
Magichris, opinions don't need to be based on facts.
that's why they are called opinions.

I need a loopball!!!!

Some who disagree have had the decency to call me and talk about it in person. While I disagree with their selective reporting, I think these folks made a reasonable effort to be amiable. Others, unfortunately, have not.

The ultimate responsibility for a botched engagement does not lie with the client group, no matter who the performer is. This is the business part of show business, and when your reputation is on the line (read "every time you go out for a gig"), if something goes wrong, then you don't rest until you have called someone, period. You certainly don't vanish for four days and expect your clients not to talk about it.

What is evident is that a lot of Cellini's most ardent admirers are unwilling to accept that he is not infallible on things outside of magic technique but related to magic professionalism. As are we all, by the way. But "living legend" status simply does not totally absolve one from the consequences of one's actions or inactions.

Cellini did the classy thing by apologizing and offering a make-up engagement (not gratis, by the way -- his student paid him). I think the Atlanta crowd (including some from out of town) did the classy thing by coming out -- again -- to support him and learn from him. And I have reported BOTH incidents here, fairly and accurately. Everything else beyond that is simply spin.

No matter how convenient it is for online arguments and positioning and posturing, you simply cannot ignore the client's bottom-line experience when examining "the facts" behind any engagement, successful or not. If you want to build a magic business and a good reputation, then you will always put the client's experience at the TOP of your list of considerations, not the bottom.

If anyone else has further criticism or comment regarding the Atlanta engagements, I suggest we take it offline or at least to a more relevant section. I have attempted to keep this impersonal but it appears that some are unwilling to follow suit.

If Cellini offers a DVD of his Slydini lecture material, I will be first in line.

JMT