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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » How It's Done by Edward A. Litzau and daub (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kimura
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I'm curious about that too - my guess would be that if you're marking a whole deck, and each value differently, you're probably going to end up with some pretty convoluted hand movements that would raise suspicion.
tommy
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The action does look pretty obvious when one looks at some of the eye-in-the-sky examples on the net. Still, I don't think anybody would and I have never known anybody notices the action live. In my experience, the dealer or a player will notice a mark, rather than see the action of somebody marking the cards.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2020, tommy wrote:

The action does look pretty obvious when one looks at some of the eye-in-the-sky examples on the net.
Still, I don't think anybody would and I have never known anybody notices the action live. In my experience, the dealer or a player will notice a mark, rather than see the action of somebody marking the cards.


Good points, tommy.

However, if the marks can be seen by the eye in the sky or surveillance, then the work if no good---it is a sucker item type daub or "paint." For a pro, his first requirement is the work CAN'T be seen through the cameras or surveillance.

What kind of moron would play daub that can be seen through surveillance? Yes, I know there are a lot of morons out there, and these are the guys that usually get caught and end up on video, although even the best can occasionally get "caught" (meaning primarily getting winning heat and have to judiciously move on to another spot for a while).

To last and get it on time after time for significant money is not easy. To become a successful long time pro is hard work and takes a lot of experience. But it is worth it to them because of the money they can make...much better that any 9-5 job they could get...and the travel spots they go to and free time they get are much better also.

To magicians and demonstrators (99% of whom have never "been there") exposing some garbage daub work that a 3 year old could see blindfolded, while pontificating about their knowledge and expertise during their "expert" demonstrations...now that's easy.
tommy
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We were not suggesting the marks can be seen by the eye. What normally happens is the hustler marking the cards gets greedy and surveillance starts looking at the eye tapes to see if they can see what he is doing. In that process, they see by the action of his fingers that he appears to be marking cards. So without and before seeing the marks themselves surveillance already knows what he is probably doing. The action and marks are two different pieces of evidence.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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The Dowser
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Finding the marks as the first piece of evidence makes it easier to then go back and gain the other piece from the camera (at least in the casino environment).
Unfortunately, it isn't as easy the other way around... first recognizing the suspicious action ... then looking for marks.
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When the surveillance become sus of greedy players betting patterns, they do not know he is making cards or switching or anything. All they know is the fellow seems too lucky for their liking. It is likely at that will first look at tape before checking the card in my view. It depends, it is not unknown for hustlers marking cards in casino BlackJack games to hit on 20 and get and get an Ace, which of course will wake the dead. to the fact that the cards must be marked.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2020, tommy wrote:

When the surveillance become suspicious of greedy players betting patterns, they do not know he is making cards or switching or anything. All they know is the fellow seems too lucky for their liking....it is not unknown for hustlers marking cards in casino BlackJack games to hit on 20 and get and get an Ace, which of course will wake the dead. to the fact that the cards must be marked.


It is unknown for anyone to has lasted long enough to become a pro to hit a 20 with a small card coming up, if fact they would not hit 17, 18 or 19 in that situation. Of course, sometime a yahoo will come out of the woodwork and do something like this, but a pro???

Without giving away the store, one would be hard pressed to figure out what was happening on a pro play...all you would know is the game is losing money which can happen at any time. It can be mixed up so much it would drive you crazy to figure what was happening...plus the take off man may not be making any bad plays at all.

Also I would defy anyone to detect a pro hitting the cards with daub. It is not like a second or bottom deal with definable points of reference.

But as I said, I am not giving away the store on a public site.
tommy
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I am speaking of actual reported cases.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2020, tommy wrote:
I am speaking of actual reported cases.


Tommy, I don't doubt what you say about this occurrence or what the report may have said.

I don't know what the actual situation was or who the clown was that hit hard 20 against a big card, but surely you will admit that is moronic. Then again there are some total morons or whack jobs taking shots from time to time but they are not pros.

Also, a pro playing paper in any game, BJ, Poker. Gin, or whatever, would use his additional knowledge to finesse his plays, not hit his opponents over the head to where it would be obvious the cards were marked.

But tommy, you already know that. You have been involved in live gaming and know what you can and cannot do in a game. Further, if a pro who does something inexplicable and which makes no sense on the surface, he would do so because it is a setup and part of the overall scam and in that light makes perfect sense.
tommy
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Well, I am not a professional, but if I were a professional, then my professional opinion would be, that fooling the camera is ****ing hard. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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In 52 Steve used a "Speed Hop", a move designed to fool a camera because of the speed. If the guy in the video knew that concept he could become a blur if he did it really fast. Imagine him jumping at the deck of cards and switching it with a ferocious attitude and speed. I would suggest to use the same concept in marking cards, but.. I might be giving away too much of the store. I hope the shop owners are not angry at me.
tommy
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What if they look at it in slow motion?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Peterson
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Quote:
On Feb 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
What if they look at it in slow motion?


It is about making it in between the frames.
tommy
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How does the fast company know when the camera is in-between frames and time to do something quickly?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Peterson
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Quote:
On Feb 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
How does the fast company know when the camera is in-between frames and time to do something quickly?


The "Speed Hop/Shift" from 52 worked on premise that the surveillance cameras are cheap or old. That means that the cameras have a low frame rate. Video is just a collection of pictures and the framerate is a frame (picture) per second. That is why "Speed Hop/Shift" works (in theory), because on a surveillance camera it would look like a blur, and when you try to put it in a slow motion (increases the time per frame) or "look at each frame individually", you would not see the movement or see only blur, because the camera cannot catch up with your movements.

You just move fast, that is it. There is no timing. Only the speed of movement.
tommy
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If one can move as fast as that plane that one cannot see hit the Pentagon it might work I guess.

Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2020, Peterson wrote:

In 52 Steve used a "Speed Hop", a move designed to fool a camera because of the speed...I would suggest to use the same concept in marking cards, but...I might be giving away too much of the store. I hope the shop owners are not angry at me.


Giving away the store implies that the inventory (knowledge) in the store has value. Smile
tommy
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Some of these reported cases I have seen are hilarious.

“Describing himself as a ‘player and cheat with an international reputation’, Ampollini told a criminal court in nearby Grasse that he was proud of his ‘work’.”


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article......79k.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Peterson
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How can he be proud of his work if he bought it from China and then got caught? This was interesting - "‘The Israeli’, who sniffed or snorted to signal what cards Ampollini should choose."

Sometime you wonder how truthful those articles and "confessions" are.
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