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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Dear Coinsters,
The spell-checker creatively tried to turn you into Canisters -- hope you don't mind too much. I've been working on magic for a few years, almost exclusively cards, and have made slow but steady progress. I'm somewhere between beginner and intermediate, closer to beginner, I'd say. I can do a decent Elmsley Count, and I seem to be having a breakthrough in the double lift, finally. So I'm not a magic novice. I thought it would be fun to add a coin trick to my repertoire -- something without gaffs and with at least one sleight, and I'm looking for suggestions about which trick. I do have two ideas in mind, but I don't know if they'd be overwhelming for someone who doesn't know any coin sleights. One is a backfire matrix, and the other is Ron Bauer's version of Gadabout Coins (in his pamphlet, GC Revisited). Both tricks appeal to me, because I have a story I'm excited about for matrix, and I can see a way to adapt the story that Bauer uses in his script to my own nefarious purposes. So... My first question is: How difficult would those two tricks be for a person who hasn't done any coin magic? I've been poring over the "well vanish" in Bauer, and I'm having a hard time putting together the words and the diagrams to understand what I'm supposed to do. As for backfire matrix, I've found a version I like, but I haven't tried it yet to see whether it's appropriate for my level. (It's Colombini's "Matrix for Lazy People," with corrections that a Café member kindly supplied me with.) Second question: If you judge the tricks I mentioned to be too hard for a newcomer to coins, what would you suggest? A variety of ideas would help me, because I usually don't get excited about a trick unless I can come up with a little story to go with it. I have some coin books and dvd's, including Bobo (the original one, without "New" in the title), Ammar's DVD, David Roth's "Made Easy" DVD's, and Tarr's Now you see it. Thanks for your help, everybody! Regards, Bob :spinningcoin: |
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Nev Blenk Regular user Northumberland UK 126 Posts |
Hello Bob
Welcome to the wonderful world of coin magic. Its not as scary as some may think but because of the nature of what you are performing with (coins) there is an instinct in all spectators to spot when something doesn't look 'right'. For the simple reason that everyone including small children handle coins everyday, or maybe not as much since the advent of bank cards, but there is a naturalness in handling coins that your aiming for to avoid that look you get from a spectator that says 'he is hiding something in his hand'. Sorry if I'm rambling off topic but you need to build that base of naturalness. It is something Ive aimed for and preached in my amateur coin career. If you study the recent masters (Roth, Rubenstein, Latta, Ammar ... etc etc) you can see that nothing happens... by that I mean there is no flamboyent hand movement going on, there is nothing unnecessary happening, everything looks relaxed and completely natural. A matrix effect is a good start I guess. There will be palming involved aswell as transfers but you have the cards as some cover and handling the cards aswell as the coins will build dexterity. When I'm learning a new routine, once I have the 'moves' nailed I then do the whole routine incredibly slowly gradually building up to normal speed. Sometimes infront of a mirror or more than likely I film myself on my phone camera. If your serious about learning card magic then you will have a deck on hand wherever you are so you can annoy everyone around you practicing. "Are you going to do that all evening !!!!" is a regular phrase heard in my house. There is no reason not to have a few coins on hand also just to practice the various palms and transfers and if your just using one coin while sat with the family its a lot quieter. Sorry if I havent answered your questions directly or have rambled on. I just want for your hands to look completely narural when you first perform with coins for an audience. Good luck and have fun. Cheers Nev P.S The magicians I mentioned are the ones I studdied when I began in the early 90's. Speak as you find I guess
Coin & Box - book available directly from me.
https://youtu.be/kAxQ6GRU-RI |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
The first topic in this section is devoted to beginners in coin magic. Might be a good place to start, since many of the places to look are mentioned.
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 12, 2020, Bob G wrote: Honestly, seems you got all you need as to getting started right there. I and many here have gone down some of the very same blocks early on in our journeys in coin magic. Of course, there's always more stuff/ other stuff out there but those are as good a place to start as anywhere else. And as to things like Gadabout Coins, Matrix, etc...those are good places to start as they are not too difficult, with good practice to it in efforts to make it look better & better as you learn & learn. Bauer's "Gadabout Revisited" is a wonderful version of the old trick in Bobo's. My own little take of the trick is a combination of a few different methods from here & there and I use Bauer's 1st Phase as my open. That said, might be good to learn it from Bobo's first before going forward. It's a great little trick to learn because it teaches so much, which is why so many people have learned it and still do some take on it still to this day...I know I do. I've actually had a resurgence in doing it as of late. But in general, you're going the right ways...Welcome here and just Keep Moving Forward! (KMF!)... 😏
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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pabloinus Inner circle 1681 Posts |
I'd recommend TRESOR by Jeff Copeland. it is basically only one sleight, that allows as the video progresses to end with routines, in doing that you will learn concealment, takes and puts. You just need few coins, no gimmicks, and the video.
I personally learnt a lot from it. Pablo |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
1. Hi again, Mb217. I thought I might hear from you on this thread. Just a brief clarification: I have the original Bobo, but not The New Modern Coin Magic. The original definitely has a version of gadabout, and from what I've read, so does the "New Modern." I'm hoping the one you have in mind is in the original? Because that's the one I have.
Bob 2. Pablo, thanks for the reference. I'll look into it. Bob (Ah, excellent, I still remember my name! ) |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I would think a classic like this would be in both versions of the book.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Okay, then, I know it's in the book I have, so I'll look at that.
Now... I have two more questions. I looked at the Dover edition of Bobo last night and was pleased to find that I could read it! When I began magic a few years ago I found it intimidating. But now I find that it's well-written in clear, simple prose. So I guess I've made some progress! First question: Is the "tunnel vanish" early in the Dover edition essentially the same as the "in the well vanish" that Bauer describes in his pamphlet "Gadabout Coins Revisited"? (Except the tunnel is horizontal and the well is vertical.) I ask because I'm having a heck of a time trying to follow the instructions for the well, whereas the tunnel vanish description is easy to follow. Does anyone know of *slow* videos of either or both of those sleights? Bauer has a video of the well vanish, but it goes by much too fast for my feeble brain. By the way, am I the only one who finds the tunnel vanish humorous? There's something funny and charming about dropping the coin from the right (?) hand right back into the right hand. Instead of retaining the coin in the hand, you're letting go of it and then picking it right back up again. Clever stuff. Second question: more generally, does anyone have recommendations about which vanishes (false transfers) in Bobo to learn first? I suppose it depends on the trick. But there's such a wealth of different vanishes that I don't know where to begin, especially since Bobo seems to think highly of all of them. (Makes sense -- if he *didn't* like them he wouldn't have included them.) Mind you, I could see having some fun just learning a bunch of them (over time). Thanks, Bob |
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Conus Special user 657 Posts |
Bob,
The vanishes and other tools in Modern Coin Magic can be adapted to various types of props. You might consider studying all of them and seeing where they take you. (There is so much material hidden in that book.) |
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JoeHohman Special user Erie 706 Posts |
Bob, I second MB's nomination --- Gadabout is a great trick with which to start. One of the things that is great about it is that you use no gaffs, no hold-outs, nothing except your hands and a pocket. You can follow Bobo's presentation to the letter, or you can experiment with different transfers, p*@ms, and convincers as you progress.
There is a lot of misdirection built into the basic plot. It is a classic plot! Also, it is a great example of breaking the "never repeat a trick" rule. You will do the same apparent effect multiple times, but with different methods. Great example, also, of a "kicker" ending. Write your own story around why the coin keeps returning. Some stories are very funny; some are sad; some are unintentionally sad or funny. Your personality will make the difference! Please practice the living daylights out of this; even though you know you're a beginner, your audience will think you are a respected coin operator if you can perform this smoothly and effortlessly. And if you can add a good story behind it, they'll promote you to rock star. You won't get on Penn and Teller with it, but your audience will think you belong there if you do this well. If you can't tell, I am a BIG fan of this trick.... |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2020, Bob G wrote: I don't know about "slow" or that particular sleight (I haven't viewed it in quite a while), but this is an inexpensive DVD set that makes a good companion to the book: |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Conus, Joe, and inigmontoya. Good to hear that G. coins, which already intrigues me, is a good one for beginners.
Just realized that I already have this DVD set -- clearly I'm spending far too much on magic! I was happy to see that G. coins and the tunnel vanish are on it. It doesn't say on the case, but I think this is Ben Salinas's work. I remember from watching bits of it that it's brisk, but very clearly explained. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'll stay a day, I'll stay an hour, or two, but I must go practice. Bob |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Reelmagicmagazine.com has access to not only Cam's talks on Bobo but Kianoa Harbottle's lessons (Coins 101 and Coin U) and several from David Roth. $5 a month.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Critter. I've heard lots of good things about Reel Magic.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Meant to say Curtis Kam. Stupid aphasia.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks for the correction.
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The Gold Coin New user 76 Posts |
I learned a ton from the DVD that inigmntoya mentioned. Ben is a great teacher, and those DVDs are a good place to learn the basic slights. Once you've mastered them, the New York Coin Magic Seminar has a ton of full length routines, and more subtle techniques to learn. Eric Jones' Metal 2 also has an excellent coin assembly (Dean Dill's No Extras) among other neat routines.
As far as specific tricks go, Roth's coins across is the routine I *always* do. It's technically quite approachable after you've spent some time working on your slights, and it plays well. I would start there, or perhaps with No Extras as the two routines could complement each other. |
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Feral Chorus Elite user CA 495 Posts |
I will contribute with my own experience. The first two effects that I really got down were Daryl's Cross of India and Gregory Wilson's Questionable Trick. Neither are technically challenging and are pretty much anytime anywhere effects.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Gold Coin and Feral Chorus. This is very helpful.
Gold Coin, I'm guessing from the title that No Extras is gaff-free? And does it have a "backfire" at the end, where the coins end up back where they started? I have Roth's "Made Easy" DVD's and will look for coins across there. Feral Chorus, Do you have a reference for the two tricks you mentioned? I think I've seen Daryl's on Lybrary...? |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
P. S. I just found a video of No Extras, so that's taken care of (no backfire; I need a backfire for my little story. But I'm curious: Which is easier, coin assemblies with cards, or with just bare hands.
I have a feeling this is a minority opinion, but I find assemblies with cards more magical. Bob |
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