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Alyx New user 87 Posts |
My background is in sleight of hand magic. I have lots of performing airtime, and I'm very well read with respect to magic. And my magic has been leaning towards mentalism for a while (I frequently open with p**ks revealed with a mentalism slant, I used to do "stigmata," etc.). Now I'm fully taking the plunge towards mentalism -- selling off a lot of my treasured magic books to make room for a mentalism education, etc.
Here's my question. Would anyone offer tips for how to practice mentalism that involves audience participation (i.e. br******g a******s) or reading spectators' reactions, etc. In magic, my experience is that you practice the sleights, practice the presentations, and then I rehearse in front of stuffed animals -- easy peasey. I find that I could use some tips for how to practice and rehearse mentalism, as it seems less straightforward. Not sure if there's any tangible advice out there, but I figure it's worth acknowledging what I don't know. Thanks! |
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Michael Zarek Special user Sweden 923 Posts |
When it comes to stuff like actually reading people reactions and various propless methods out there, the only way is to practice on real people.
I usually practice on people I know or in bars.
Reader discretion is advised.
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Consider offering free shows to groups that can't normally afford entertainment. You can start small and work your way up. You can also mix magic and mentalism at first, starting with more magic and transitioning to pure mentalism.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Alyx New user 87 Posts |
Michael, I was also thinking I may need to re-enter the bar scene to get experience here. Not exactly my scene, but a good place to get mileage, I suppose.
Vanderbeck, I primarily do strolling work, and hadn't much luck this past year in getting booked for free gigs -- I did only two over the last year. I do have a fundraiser coming up that I'm doing for a greatly reduced rate. So there's that. And yes, the idea of mixing is the plan. I have one set of my strongest magic, one set with magic and mentalism blended, and one set of straight mentalism. I'm hoping that if the mentalism goes over well, I'll lean on it, and if it doesn't I'll lean towards magic. Thanks both for your thoughts, and if others have more, I'm receptive! |
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Conner New user 60 Posts |
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On Feb 1, 2020, Alyx wrote: The scripting for those can be practiced with a coin flip, or just asking Google on your phone to flip a coin. For the next step in your script, tap the "flip again" button and you have your random answer replicating a participant's response. This can also be used to practice e*****q*e. Depending on what routines you're practicing, there may also be practice tools online. I don't know if it's still available, but Alain Nu had an online trainer for Astrologic. |
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Alyx New user 87 Posts |
Connor, this is exactly what I'm looking for. When you say it, it sounds obvious, but I wouldn't have thought of it. Thank you. Just awesome.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12941 Posts |
During your walk around gigs throw in some mentalism. Try it out. I still do it. Last walk around gig I practiced my mental dice for a stage show.
Try stuff like Bryan Reynolds 7 Please read the many great reviews here at the Café: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15 |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts |
Good to know I'm not the only one who practices in front of stuffed animals. I find them particularly useful for chair tests.
You just can't practice mentalism in front of family and friends. They know you can't read minds etc so immediately it's just a trick. Yes you can practice any sleights but when it comes to the real work of performance you have to get out in front of real people. No point mixing it in amongst magic tricks as again it will be perceived as another trick. You need an audience who know nothing about you. Tell them you can read minds and by the time you leave they need to believe you can. The important thing is to stick around after and chat to your audience, find out what they really think. There's a few options here: 1. It's all a trick and they know exactly how it was done - in this case time to find another job. 2. Its all a trick but they have no idea how it was done - more work needed on performance 3. Lots of people think it's a trick but you have a few believers - moving in the right direction 4. Most think it's genuine with a few still saying trick - you can't get much better than this. Even if you're a genuine telepath some will always call trick. you'll never convince everyone. Think it was Bob Cassidy who said that no matter what, some will believe you're a psychic, some will believe it's psychology and some that it's a trick. If by the end of a show you've managed to convince a few of the sceptics you've done a good job. Be prepared for very different reactions to a magic performance. If people believe what they are seeing is genuine there first reaction can often be confusion and questioning everything they know. Not clapping because you've turned a sponge ball into a bunny. Ignore practically everything everyone says on here, including me. Create your character, decide on what powers you have, telepathy, clairvoyance etc, decide on how you come by these skills (psychology or psychic or something original to you). Keep your routines simple and listen to your audience. |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
It's commonly recommended when moving into to mentalism to focus on character because the presentation can make or break the effects in a way that is less forgiving than magic.
BA are fine I guess, but my recommendation is to focus on effects that do not require much mental juggling, at least at first. That way you can just focus on presentation and get it down in the same way you might practice a sleight/patter combo in magic. Side note, check out my podcast (in my sig). As far as I know, it's the only currently running mentalism themed podcast.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Axel Elite user Berlin 451 Posts |
My advice would be to start with an "easy" premise.
Many people believe it is possible to read body language. There are a lot of routines out there that work fine as lie detector routines. Work hard on them and try to make them as believalble as possible. Pick one mindreading routine and leave it at that for the start. In my experience the body language premise is easier to sell. I wouldn't recommend to start out with BAs because the method might make it hard in the beginning to focus on your presentation and connecting to your audience. Much success to you! Best regards, Axel |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
If bars aren’t your scene, why go there? Lots of places are great for practicing Mentalism. Much of my practice of close up Mentalism has been in coffee shops, various stores and casual social situations. Anywhere there are people. A drawing duplication is a wonderful effect to begin with.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12941 Posts |
I am not in the camp in devote mentalism to a character. You can perform mentalist and mind reading by being yourself. You don’t need to be some mystery max maven type character. Nothing against max of course. He is a character.
But you could easily instruct and demonstrate. I don’t believe it’s necessary to pull a ruse as if you can really read minds. Although I’ve been terribly successful at performing demonstrations using tells and body language. But that comes with experience and confidence leave the folks to believe and take it for what it is they wish to take it for. Good luck, |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
I think there are some different ideas about what 'character' means. For me, it doesn't mean somebody else, and my 'character' is definitely me, but amplified.
The important point here is that 'the actual you' is doing tricks. 'Your character' is the one who can read minds. Isn't the thing that differentiates mentalism from magic a degree of believability? Well, for magic tricks to become believable requires a certain something. That something is acting. And in order to act, one needs a character. I think people often hear this advice and think they need to create a fictional character that is different than themselves, and that is not required (or necessarily a good idea). But you do need to act like what you are doing is real. That's what I mean when I say develop your character.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts |
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On Feb 4, 2020, Last Laugh wrote: Well said.
Lakewood, Ohio
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Take the Invisi*** De** in hand. Forget every other way you've ever performed it.
Wordlessly hand the closed deck to your spectator. Have them hold the closed pack in the palm of their hand. Tell them you are going to implant a thought in their mind. Have them make direct eye contact with you just a second longer than is comfortable. Then say, with some urgency, "Quickly: Red or Black?" When they respond nod like they just did what you wanted them to do/expected them to do. (And believe it.) More eye contact: "There are four suits. As you look at me, you are seeing one of the four: Hearts, Spades, Diamonds or Clubs" slowly rising above the rest in your imagination. Don't double guess. In your mind's eye -- your imagination -- which of the four suits is rising up?" When they respond say "A suit of cards is made up of values from Ace to King. In a second I'm going to ask you to name one of them. Take the first card that comes into mind. Ready? Please concentrate. Name a card value." "So you had a free choice. First you chose RED. Then you chose Diamonds. Then you chose a 3. At any of these choices you COULD have gone in a completely different direction. Am I right?" They'll nod...because it's true. Then settle back. Smile. Wordlessly take the deck off of their palm. Open it. Riffle through the cards until you reveal just one that is face down. "Only one of these cards is face down." Flip the card over and reveal the 3 of diamonds. Don't say a word. Not a single word. Just watch them take it in. Watch how they process what's just happened. Watch as they wonder if there is ANY possibility that they haven't just seen a cool card trick. If they grapple with the whole notion that what they've just seen could POSSIBLY have been real? You'll have seen first-hand the difference between mentalism and magic performances. Perform this ten times exactly as written and as you do so, actually TRY in your mind to influence them. It doesn't matter if you can't or don't. What matters is that they THINK you're trying and just MIGHT actually be doing it. Prior to doing it again rethink the whole routine: what you're doing with it...where you're going with it...what you want the spectator to think. You'll find that now you will have your own ideas for changing the scripting. Maybe it's now a prediction. Maybe it involves three people instead of one. Maybe the deck of cards is wrapped in a scarf. Maybe... All of the "maybes" you come up with as you work this as a mentalism effect (instead of a card trick) will help you determine where you're going with your character and what KIND of mentalism you are made to perform. It will also work on you as a performer to change your thinking from magician to mentalist. That's a lesson you can only learn by performing mentalism for people who don't know you and aren't inclined to be kind. THEN I suggest you pick up several books that deal with foundational mentalism. (There are already a pile of threads about this.) Get a good book on basic cold reading...another on interpreting body language. Learn a basic CT. Familiarize yourself with the world of possibilities that open up with a good IMP. After you have really studied all that, go back to a brand new spectator with a closed deck of cards and place it on their palm and see what comes out of you. Hope this is helpful. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 4, 2020, David Thiel wrote: Great Advice (as usual) David! I also agree with the work on thinking about your character. Bob Cassidy's book "The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy, Volume 2, Fundamentals" begins with the best thinking I have read on establishing your performance character. Here is what I do to practice: For Close up Pieces: When I have something new I workshop it alone going over the presentation and necessary beats of the script. Often this means writing it out as one would to explain it's process in a book, often I will find ideas and flaws just by doing this. I perform the effect while recording it on video with an imaginary spectator. I watch that and imagine I'm that spectator and make adjustments. I have friends and colleagues that always would love to see my work and some that also give good feedback. I then try the routine on each of them as I get the chance over a number of months. If it survives all this then it can go into a paid performance. For Stage: First I write out everything so that I'm very clear on what blocking and script I need to use. I then video tape myself just performing the scripting with imaginary props and assistance. I also commonly have a microphone or something microphone sized on hand when I do this so that when I perform with a hand held mic there are no awkward moments. Now I do the same thing with props on hand and a lot is changed and refined just by doing this up to this point. I do this a number of times over a few weeks usually, then I will add usually as a piece during a cabaret show I do regularly. (Or at an open mic night if its a short set.) I also video tape these and I don't think the process of refinement ever ends. Here's a video of part of this process. The Staple Gun piece is the most recent I have put into my show. The intro and which hand segment I have done a long time but even those I tweak often. I also will do the which hand differently close up. But when I can practice a piece for stage when doing close up that's always nice too. This video is my segment during a Cabaret show I do regularly. It is the 5th time I have done this particular 20 minute set on stage. I consider it ready now to put into more substantial paid events. https://youtu.be/JLpHKc5ffEA All the best in your development as an artist and mentalist!
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
If you have a few places to test things out, I'd say take one thing...and then present it in different ways in different places...
See what happens when you emphasise one point over another and vice versa...and change the angle from a skillset/ability perspective... So take a name reveal. Think about how you are doing that. Are you seeing the person in your mind's eye when you touch the person's hand? How does that work? Or are you asking them to visualise something? Something else? One that I think is fun, is for them to imagine their friend holding up a sign like people do at an airport with their name on it...which then ties in with the process too... Anyway, that's what I think may make it fun for you as well as them. A bit of variety and the creative side of mentalism, thinking about the whys and hows... That way, you might find a route that resonates with you as a person. It adds to the authenticity, performing wise in my opinion.
I've asked to be banned
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Louis Gordon New user 91 Posts |
As far as getting practice in for those things here is something else to consider. Look in your area for comedy open mics. Get to know the host. After you have done the work at home getting the moves and lines down and perhaps some on the street work done sign up for the mic. The issues you face here will challenge you to find creative solutions to problems. Use the mic to hone in on the details as fast as you can but do not get stuck repeating the same effect. Once you get in on the mics you might be able to get in on some mix variety shows to continue to hone the routine or even routines in a live show that is still less pressure than a regular gig. Just be a bit creative and think where performs are in your area and get with them. By the way, one open mic in my town does not need over 21 for others reading this that might not be able to go in a bar. Also on mics creating a new is an option but a lot of work. Hope this helps.
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GlennLawrence Veteran user Randolph NJ 319 Posts |
Good advice there, Louis! In my area the county library has open mic nights every few months and they encourage all types of performers. I've not been to it yet but as it's a library it's more family oriented than the ones in a bar/club.
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david12345 Special user 714 Posts |
As an aside I did not see this mentioned nor was it included in your question but as someone who jumped from magic to strictly mentalism 11 or 12 years ago and I know some guys here as well did...you need to also work on your magician guilt and running when not being chased...You can and will get away with a lot you might be afraid is too bold or "obvious" when presenting mentalism properly. IE no reason to prove something is regular (what else would it be?), when performing you will be under less scrutiny or a different kind of scrutiny than a magician. A lot more comes down to presentation and connecting with people than complex moves (which is not to say don't practice and perfect the moves) Hope this makes sense to you and congratulations on your next adventure.
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