The Magic Cafť
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Metal Phone by Calen Morelli and Joao Miranda (96 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..12~13~14~15~16~17~18~19 [Next]
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
First, I don't know why people are surprised by Brett's behavior, he has always behaved like this. I have seen him personally attack so many creators it makes me wonder why people are so surprised when he does it to Joao? If he is not tied to the profits or the creator in some aspect, he's not polite and shows his true colors.

We should not forget that people were doing "svenpads" long before him and referring to this idea using the term "sven" and "Svenpad" but when Brett decided to do it, he trademarked the name and threatened to sue anyone who used the name to market their own product. There were E-books that talked about how to make a svenpad that were out years before Brett's products that were taken off of the market because of his threats.

We should also not forget that when John Van Der Linden created some original ideas for the svenpad, Brett wanted to produce John's products in a professionally printed svenpad that he could profit from and John Van Der Linden said no because according to him, Brett was going to overcharge and hoard all of the profits. Did Brett respect John Van Der Linden's wishes? No, he went ahead and printed them anyways. He claimed that he only printed them for people who already had purchased the download from John Van Der Linden but that does not justify him. Those were individual people who had purchased the download for their own individual use, according to copyright laws, it did not give Brett the right to profit from them. When John Van Der Linden objected further, he was removed from the Svenpad facebook group, and according to him was threatened with a 2 million dollar lawsuit from Brett's lawyer.

Morally this is wrong but again, why are we surprised? This is what happens when someone who is not creative in the least bit, nor original and who doesn't care about the art, sees magic as an opportunity to profit rather than a way to express themselves through their art. Brett said that Joao thinks more like an engineer than a magician, well it becomes glaringly obvious that he thinks more like a corporate business man than an engineer, a performer, or a magician.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, lets stop being surprised by his behavior, ignore him, and get back to Joao's wonderful product that he has invested a lot of time into and deserves a lot of credit for creating.

_____________________________________________________________
Having said that, lets get back to the product at hand. I recently purchased it and am waiting for it to come in the mail. I went round and round in my head as to whether this was worth $350 and whether it was worth waiting 2-3 months (I know, can you believe it?!?) to receive in the mail. Joao is from Portugal, so after shipping it could be close to 4 months before I receive it in Minnesota.

What budged me on this and made me order it was not just that I was bored during this isolation period that we are all going through, but that two thoughts came to me. The first thought that crossed my mind was when I saw James "The Amazing" Randi on TED Talks. He had fooled me and the rest of the audience by coming out with eye-glass frames but with no lenses in them and using a beard trimmer as a microphone. His talk was about assumptions that we make which cause us to be deceived. He said, "You probably think that I can see you, wrong - these are empty frames, I can't see you. I know that you are there because I can hear you." He then said, "you probably think that this is a microphone... wrong again... it's a beard trimmer. It works good to trim a beard, not so good as a microphone, trust me I have tried it." James Randi was invoking a great principle and I was happy to have been fooled by him because I made many assumptions. When I saw this on the Wizard Product Review, the idea of putting a card through a phone was unappealing to me. It was the same ol nonsense that we have seen before and in fact everyone, including non-magic folk have seen before. What fooled me was when David Penn turned over the phone to reveal a block of metal. Therefore I disagree with others who have said that it would have been better to be a cell phone rather than a block of metal. This will hit much harder, the problem is that many of you are thinking like magicians, not laymen.

The second thought that came to me was that this would be a great way to open up a metal manipulation (and bending) routine. If you truly could move metal with your mind, why is it limited to wimpy forks? I have never had this problem but many magicians (or mentalists if you prefer) have said that their audience was not impressed with their metal bending BECAUSE THEY ARE WIMPY FORKS that anyone can bend. I have never had this problem so I think that it might have to do with how it is presented and how the routine is structured but I thought that this metal phone would be a great metal manipulation opener. Think about this for a second, long before you bring out the forks, spoons, nails, etc. you open with metal phone. You convince your audience that you are able to manipulate the metal to the point that a card can pass through it, then you go into bending forks, and all of that other stuff. Nobody will say "can you do it with a solid block of steal" BECAUSE YOU ALREADY DID IT and they were able to examine it. How awesome is this?

In full disclosure, I have not received mine yet but if it is as good as David Penn said that it was and presented it on the Wizard Product Review, I think that it will get fantastic reactions and it will be worth every penny. I will post and updated review after I receive it. If it doesn't live up to the expectations, then you can rest assure that I will sell it at a discounted price tag but I think that the chances of that are extremely low.

Sincerely,
The March Hare
PendletonThe3rd
View Profile
Special user
700 Posts

Profile of PendletonThe3rd
^ it's $250 not $350
Gaz Lawrence
View Profile
Inner circle
3567 Posts

Profile of Gaz Lawrence
I personally love both Brett and Joao as people and as creators .
I think itís totally wrong that people are bashing Brett or anyone on here .
Itís totally wrong at anytime in life but when you think of the real troubles in the world right now itís deplorable .
Take care to everyone and good magic to all Gaz 🙂
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, PendletonThe3rd wrote:
^ it's $250 not $350


I forgot what I paid for it since I bought the accessories for it too.
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I personally love both Brett and Joao as people and as creators .
I think itís totally wrong that people are bashing Brett or anyone on here .
Itís totally wrong at anytime in life but when you think of the real troubles in the world right now itís deplorable .
Take care to everyone and good magic to all Gaz 🙂


It's not "bashing" him whatsoever, it is describing what behavior is being observed. It's not deplorable to say it, whether it is a pandemic or not, what is deplorable is trademarking a classic principle and then threatening to sue creator who uses the term "sven" in their advertising. What is deplorable is profiting from John Van Der Linden's work, not respecting his creative control over his products, banning him from the facebook group, and threatening him with a lawyer. If you don't like people calling him out on his behavior, then as his friend advise him to change his attitude and his behavior, and respect others as human beings.

Perhaps even better, ask him to issue an apology to all of the people that he has personally attacked like Joao Miranda, and all of the people that he has burned a bridge with like John Van Der Linden. I'll do you one better, I will take back every thing that I have ever said about him, if he makes an honest effort to dialogue with the people that he has trampled on and insulted and apologize for his behavior.

Did I also mention that he threatened the creator of Svenlopes too? Yes, he did. And anyone who confronted him on his behavior, he simply blocked. He cares more about his supposed "trademark" of a classic principle, than he does about the art and about people. It's obvious by the way he conducts himself. What if I came up with an anagram and I called it "anapeak" and anyone who used the term "ana" after that I threatened with a lawsuit? I will tell you, it would be immoral and it would be a hinderance to our art.
Gaz Lawrence
View Profile
Inner circle
3567 Posts

Profile of Gaz Lawrence
I think itís utterly deplorable and thatís the whole problem with social media .
Who cares about Facebook I for one would never be on it and I have not lost out one single bit as a result .
You act as if Facebook is life or death and thatís deplorable when life and death is being faced by 100ís of thousands of people in the world right now .
You want to get your priorities right my friend nearly all magic principles are not new and if you donít know that you want to start studying the history of magic a bit more .
There is a hierarchy of bashing on here and itís totally wrong .
Itís a form of bullying that none of you are ever prepared to do face to face ( surprise surprise ) .
Best wishes Gaz 🙂
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I think itís utterly deplorable and thatís the whole problem with social media .
Who cares about Facebook I for one would never be on it and I have not lost out one single bit as a result .
You act as if Facebook is life or death and thatís deplorable when life and death is being faced by 100ís of thousands of people in the world right now .
You want to get your priorities right my friend nearly all magic principles are not new and if you donít know that you want to start studying the history of magic a bit more .
There is a hierarchy of bashing on here and itís totally wrong .
Itís a form of bullying that none of you are ever prepared to do face to face ( surprise surprise ) .
Best wishes Gaz 🙂


I never invoked just facebook, but any form of communication is relevant and how you treat people says a lot about your character. You seem to care a lot about what people have to say about him on magic Cafť, but you completely turn a blind eye to his behavior on facebook, both are digital platforms and how he conducts himself matters on both of them.

Furthermore I said almost nothing about facebook, other than him banning John Van Der Linden and anyone else who he has burned a bridge with. It's relevant because that is a platform for communicating and has to do with his actions. However most of my problem with him has to do with him trademarking a classic principle and threatening to sue people who use any variation of the term associated with the sevengali principle. It is life and death when you threaten people with your lawyer and try to prevent their individual publications from being released and sold. It is life and death when you do not respect other artists and seek to profit from their creations.

When it comes to describing his behavior, it's not a form of bullying, you are completely wrong. When people have been burned by him and they simply describe their experiences and the experiences of others, that is not bullying or bashing by definition. It is simply describing his behavior. What you have done is give him a pass for all of his behavior and blamed the victims, who have had to put up with his behavior simply because they have described his actions in unflattering terms.

Lastly I would have no problem being face to face with him but it shouldn't matter whether we are face to face, on facebook, or having a discussion about it on the magic Cafť. When Brett bashed and insulted Joao, I didn't see you telling him, "I bet you wouldn't be willing to say that face to face", no you were silent on the problem, which demonstrates that you are predispositioned to give Brett a pass and not all of the people who he has insulted and threatened.

This idea that because it is a pandemic, we need to just white wash everything that this man has done is ridiculous and unintellectual.
The Unmasked Magician
View Profile
Inner circle
If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than
1546 Posts

Profile of The Unmasked Magician
I have to agree with The March Hare, Gaz. Just read the thread on how Brett treated Drew Backenstoss. No man with good intentions would do that IMO.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
RNK
View Profile
Inner circle
4797 Posts

Profile of RNK
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
I have to agree with The March Hare, Gaz. Just read the thread on how Brett treated Drew Backenstoss. No man with good intentions would do that IMO.


Well I'm glad it's just not me so videoman can fully understand the ignorance from this person.
Gaz Lawrence
View Profile
Inner circle
3567 Posts

Profile of Gaz Lawrence
I have read the thread you refer in its entirety and I donít condone it but whatís wrong is private messages being plastered over a public forum .
If you have something said in private then itís private and please have the balls Drew to face the person .
I have never in 24 years been confronted by anyone at Blackpool only other than to shake my hand and be humble and nice .
This is in despite of what they have said in an open forum about me here , we are friends with a common love of our art deep down .
In regards to Facebook the mad March hare said Brett then removed John from his Facebook group , so what ! My heart bleeds for him .
Best wishes Gaz 🙂
Ps I donít like s.it stirrers but you probably gathered that
Joe Roberts
View Profile
Special user
660 Posts

Profile of Joe Roberts
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, The_March_Hare wrote:

What budged me on this and made me order it was not just that I was bored during this isolation period that we are all going through, but that two thoughts came to me. The first thought that crossed my mind was when I saw James "The Amazing" Randi on TED Talks. He had fooled me and the rest of the audience by coming out with eye-glass frames but with no lenses in them and using a beard trimmer as a microphone. His talk was about assumptions that we make which cause us to be deceived. He said, "You probably think that I can see you, wrong - these are empty frames, I can't see you. I know that you are there because I can hear you." He then said, "you probably think that this is a microphone... wrong again... it's a beard trimmer. It works good to trim a beard, not so good as a microphone, trust me I have tried it." James Randi was invoking a great principle and I was happy to have been fooled by him because I made many assumptions. When I saw this on the Wizard Product Review, the idea of putting a card through a phone was unappealing to me. It was the same ol nonsense that we have seen before and in fact everyone, including non-magic folk have seen before. What fooled me was when David Penn turned over the phone to reveal a block of metal. Therefore I disagree with others who have said that it would have been better to be a cell phone rather than a block of metal. This will hit much harder, the problem is that many of you are thinking like magicians, not laymen.


Your Randi anecdote is nothing like this trick. His purpose was to make you think something was ordinary when it wasn't. With this trick you already have them thinking you're doing something extraordinary (penetrating your normal, real working cell phone) and then reveal you did something somewhat less extraordinary (penetrate a random block of metal). It would be similar to doing a sword penetration on stage and then revealing you didn't actually penetrate your assistant but you pushed the sword through a solid metal mannequin. That wouldn't be an upgrade.

And what does this mean: "the idea of putting a card through a phone was unappealing to me. It was the same ol nonsense that we have seen before and in fact everyone, including non-magic folk have seen before."

Where has ANYONE seen that before? I think most of us on this thread would love to do that trick rather than penetrating a strange block of metal. Please direct us to where this has been done.
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I have read the thread you refer in its entirety and I donít condone it but whatís wrong is private messages being plastered over a public forum .
If you have something said in private then itís private and please have the balls Drew to face the person .
I have never in 24 years been confronted by anyone at Blackpool only other than to shake my hand and be humble and nice .
This is in despite of what they have said in an open forum about me here , we are friends with a common love of our art deep down .
In regards to Facebook the mad March hare said Brett then removed John from his Facebook group , so what ! My heart bleeds for him .
Best wishes Gaz 🙂
Ps I donít like s.it stirrers but you probably gathered that


Yes he removed him from the group so that he could shamelessly sell John's products and profit from them, without his permission. It was dishonest and the intent was to shut down any opposing views, particularly from the owner of the intellectual property. For anyone not sure about the situation, he was selling custom made sevpads of John Van Der Linden's ink blot test without compensating John whatsoever.

It's not just about some facebook conversation, it's about actual harm that was caused to people. Yet when someone merely uses the term "Sven" in their marketing, such as svenlopes, Brett threatens them and the distributor with a lawsuit hoping to get their products pulled from the shelves.
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, The_March_Hare wrote:

What budged me on this and made me order it was not just that I was bored during this isolation period that we are all going through, but that two thoughts came to me. The first thought that crossed my mind was when I saw James "The Amazing" Randi on TED Talks. He had fooled me and the rest of the audience by coming out with eye-glass frames but with no lenses in them and using a beard trimmer as a microphone. His talk was about assumptions that we make which cause us to be deceived. He said, "You probably think that I can see you, wrong - these are empty frames, I can't see you. I know that you are there because I can hear you." He then said, "you probably think that this is a microphone... wrong again... it's a beard trimmer. It works good to trim a beard, not so good as a microphone, trust me I have tried it." James Randi was invoking a great principle and I was happy to have been fooled by him because I made many assumptions. When I saw this on the Wizard Product Review, the idea of putting a card through a phone was unappealing to me. It was the same ol nonsense that we have seen before and in fact everyone, including non-magic folk have seen before. What fooled me was when David Penn turned over the phone to reveal a block of metal. Therefore I disagree with others who have said that it would have been better to be a cell phone rather than a block of metal. This will hit much harder, the problem is that many of you are thinking like magicians, not laymen.


Your Randi anecdote is nothing like this trick. His purpose was to make you think something was ordinary when it wasn't. With this trick you already have them thinking you're doing something extraordinary (penetrating your normal, real working cell phone) and then reveal you did something somewhat less extraordinary (penetrate a random block of metal). It would be similar to doing a sword penetration on stage and then revealing you didn't actually penetrate your assistant but you pushed the sword through a solid metal mannequin. That wouldn't be an upgrade.

And what does this mean: "the idea of putting a card through a phone was unappealing to me. It was the same ol nonsense that we have seen before and in fact everyone, including non-magic folk have seen before."

Where has ANYONE seen that before? I think most of us on this thread would love to do that trick rather than penetrating a strange block of metal. Please direct us to where this has been done.


Well you are right, with Randi's presentation, he was making people believe that everything was "ordinary", but one could argue that with this trick, Joao was making people believe that it was an "ordinary" cell phone, only to later expose that it was no phone at all, rather it was a solid block of metal. The point that I was making is that people are under the impression that the item is one thing, only to have it turn into another.

I would be willing to bet that Joao's effect would be much more impressive than if it were an actual cell phone. However you are free to disagree of course.

Lastly I don't agree with your mannequin comparison: One implies an element of danger and is banking on it, but the other is not.
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I have read the thread you refer in its entirety and I donít condone it...
and what follows is an absolute - unequivocal justification for what he did and putting the blame on the victim. In every situation where he is the obvious aggressor, you have come back and said that he was really the one being bullied and targeted. No... he's been the one targeting others. If someone is assaulted, you don't say, "oh well maybe they should have been more muscular" or "well they lost the fight, so they shouldn't speak out because that isn't fair to the bully", no... no no no no no. There is no logic to this thinking.
Mac_Stone
View Profile
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1080 Posts

Profile of Mac_Stone
Can we stop talking about Brett? This thread is supposed to be about Metal Phone.
Gaz Lawrence
View Profile
Inner circle
3567 Posts

Profile of Gaz Lawrence
Exactly both he and Joao are beautiful human beings and Mad March Hare has no right to bring it all up again . He knows nothing about Bretts help and contribution to magic and personal messages have no place ever in an open forum . Thatís the most cowardly approach I have ever seen so Drew was bang out of order publishing them . That deflated any issues he had with Brett to minus a million imo , why he is he telling all and sundry ? Like I say you canít get lower than that imo . Back on topic please Gaz 🙂
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Exactly both he and Joao are beautiful human beings and Mad March Hare has no right to bring it all up again . He knows nothing about Bretts help and contribution to magic and personal messages have no place ever in an open forum . Thatís the most cowardly approach I have ever seen so Drew was bang out of order publishing them . That deflated any issues he had with Brett to minus a million imo , why he is he telling all and sundry ? Like I say you canít get lower than that imo . Back on topic please Gaz 🙂


That's hilarious... you should be his publicist.. you spun everything beautifully... you even convinced me that the aggressor is the victim.
Mac_Stone
View Profile
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1080 Posts

Profile of Mac_Stone
No, seriously, let's stop.
Joe Roberts
View Profile
Special user
660 Posts

Profile of Joe Roberts
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, The_March_Hare wrote:

I would be willing to bet that Joao's effect would be much more impressive than if it were an actual cell phone. However you are free to disagree of course.

Lastly I don't agree with your mannequin comparison: One implies an element of danger and is banking on it, but the other is not.


No one thinks there's real danger in most stage penetration illusions. But that's an argument for another thread.

I don't understand why you think it would be more impressive with a metal block. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just interested in what your rationale is. Your own working cell phone is something that is TRULY impenetrable in ANY circumstance, not just in a magic trick. You can't drill through it, you can't melt something through it, you can't switch it and you can't put a secret sliding hole in it. And it's a common object people are familiar with.

Can you think of any other effect that is improved by replacing one normal object with something people haven't seen before that was apparently manufactured solely for use in a magic trick?

I don't think this is a bad trick, I think it's fine. We don't have the option of doing this with a real phone unfortunately. (I know you said every layperson has already seen this done with a phone, but I don't know what you're talking about.)
The_March_Hare
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of The_March_Hare
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, The_March_Hare wrote:

I would be willing to bet that Joao's effect would be much more impressive than if it were an actual cell phone. However you are free to disagree of course.

Lastly I don't agree with your mannequin comparison: One implies an element of danger and is banking on it, but the other is not.


No one thinks there's real danger in most stage penetration illusions. But that's an argument for another thread.

I don't understand why you think it would be more impressive with a metal block. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just interested in what your rationale is. Your own working cell phone is something that is TRULY impenetrable in ANY circumstance, not just in a magic trick. You can't drill through it, you can't melt something through it, you can't switch it and you can't put a secret sliding hole in it. And it's a common object people are familiar with.

Can you think of any other effect that is improved by replacing one normal object with something people haven't seen before that was apparently manufactured solely for use in a magic trick?

I don't think this is a bad trick, I think it's fine. We don't have the option of doing this with a real phone unfortunately. (I know you said every layperson has already seen this done with a phone, but I don't know what you're talking about.)


No worries Joe, we can discuss it. As I said before, when I first saw David Penn do it, I thought that it was going to be a card through cell phone illusion and that just seemed cliche. I mean we have seen card through table, card through window, card through... fill in the blank. We have also seen classic "saw the woman in half" applied to business cards, credit cards, etc. and I thought to myself "oh go figure, credit card through cell phone." I think that magicians have a difficult time getting away from the classics and truly venturing into new territory.

When a solid block of metal came out, my first thoughts were, "wow, I didn't expect that..." and then I thought that he would say that the case and the block of metal could not be examined but when it turned out that they could be examined, I was like "how?!?!" and it gave me that feeling from when I was first fooled many years ago before I became a magician.

You're right that a cell phone is technically inpenetrable but a cell phone is predictable and I suspect that the audience would look at it more skeptically. Think about when Uri Geller did the commercial where he "bent" an iphone. People know that cell phone technology is always improving so they look at it less impressive and almost would just assume that it was another feature. I think that with the block of metal, it appears if there can be no gimmicks, after all it's two screws that pose as a camera, and some metal.

My thinking could be completely wrong about this but as I said, I was willing to put my money where my mouth is (through purchasing it) and I suspect that I am right about it. If I am wrong, then I will gladly sell this product. Hell, maybe I will consider giving it away but I don't think that I am.

You asked the question, "Can you think of any other effect that is improved by replacing one normal object with something people haven't seen before that was apparently manufactured solely for use in a magic trick?" I think that you are looking at this wrong. Talk to anyone who does metal working, a random piece of metal with two screws in it doesn't require much manufacturing. In fact most metal shops have something that fits the bill just sitting around waiting to be used for a project.

The real question should be, "Can you think of any other effect where the audience expects to find a cliche item used and what they are given is a completely different item?" The answer is yes. Think Cups and Balls, when a smaller ball is magically switched into a larger ball. Or when a lemon routine switches lemons for oranges to catch their audience offguard. This is a more equal comparison.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Metal Phone by Calen Morelli and Joao Miranda (96 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..12~13~14~15~16~17~18~19 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.37 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL