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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Metal Phone by Calen Morelli and Joao Miranda (96 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tomd
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That’s how I also felt watching it for the first time, the metal block was a positive surprise. Good thoughts
Joe Roberts
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March_Hare,

I guess we won't come to a consensus on this because I genuinely don't understand a word of what you're saying.

You wrote, "I thought that it was going to be a card through cell phone illusion and that just seemed cliche. I mean we have seen card through table, card through window, card through... fill in the blank. We have also seen classic "saw the woman in half" applied to business cards, credit cards, etc. and I thought to myself "oh go figure, credit card through cell phone." I think that magicians have a difficult time getting away from the classics and truly venturing into new territory."

So you say that card through cell phone would be cliche, and you go on to list a bunch of "card through" effects to show why it's a cliche. But this is STILL an effect where a card goes through something. It just goes through a random metal block instead of something that people would recognize. I don't quite understand how "card through cell phone" is cliche, but "card through metal block" is better. If you think that's better you should change all your props to things people wouldn't recognize.

The comparison to cups and balls doesn't make sense. In cups and balls a small ball changes into some other object. In this routine nothing changes. You never see the phone. Transformations and penetrations aren't comparable.

"Or when a lemon routine switches lemons for oranges to catch their audience offguard."

I have no idea what that is referencing. Changing a lemon for an orange sounds like the worst trick in all of magic.

I don't really need to have a back and forth about this. I can't make my point any more than it's been made. I hope everyone is very happy with their purchase!
Gaz Lawrence
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Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
March_Hare,

I guess we won't come to a consensus on this because I genuinely don't understand a word of what you're saying.

You wrote, "I thought that it was going to be a card through cell phone illusion and that just seemed cliche. I mean we have seen card through table, card through window, card through... fill in the blank. We have also seen classic "saw the woman in half" applied to business cards, credit cards, etc. and I thought to myself "oh go figure, credit card through cell phone." I think that magicians have a difficult time getting away from the classics and truly venturing into new territory."

So you say that card through cell phone would be cliche, and you go on to list a bunch of "card through" effects to show why it's a cliche. But this is STILL an effect where a card goes through something. It just goes through a random metal block instead of something that people would recognize. I don't quite understand how "card through cell phone" is cliche, but "card through metal block" is better. If you think that's better you should change all your props to things people wouldn't recognize.

The comparison to cups and balls doesn't make sense. In cups and balls a small ball changes into some other object. In this routine nothing changes. You never see the phone. Transformations and penetrations aren't comparable.

"Or when a lemon routine switches lemons for oranges to catch their audience offguard."

I have no idea what that is referencing. Changing a lemon for an orange sounds like the worst trick in all of magic.

I don't really need to have a back and forth about this. I can't make my point any more than it's been made. I hope everyone is very happy with their purchase!



Totally agree with this Joe , in reality who they are they trying to justify it to ?
Us or themselves ?
I think it’s very clearly the latter Gaz 🙂
The_March_Hare
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Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Joe Roberts wrote:
March_Hare,

I guess we won't come to a consensus on this because I genuinely don't understand a word of what you're saying.

You wrote, "I thought that it was going to be a card through cell phone illusion and that just seemed cliche. I mean we have seen card through table, card through window, card through... fill in the blank. We have also seen classic "saw the woman in half" applied to business cards, credit cards, etc. and I thought to myself "oh go figure, credit card through cell phone." I think that magicians have a difficult time getting away from the classics and truly venturing into new territory."

So you say that card through cell phone would be cliche, and you go on to list a bunch of "card through" effects to show why it's a cliche. But this is STILL an effect where a card goes through something. It just goes through a random metal block instead of something that people would recognize. I don't quite understand how "card through cell phone" is cliche, but "card through metal block" is better. If you think that's better you should change all your props to things people wouldn't recognize.

The comparison to cups and balls doesn't make sense. In cups and balls a small ball changes into some other object. In this routine nothing changes. You never see the phone. Transformations and penetrations aren't comparable.

"Or when a lemon routine switches lemons for oranges to catch their audience offguard."

I have no idea what that is referencing. Changing a lemon for an orange sounds like the worst trick in all of magic.

I don't really need to have a back and forth about this. I can't make my point any more than it's been made. I hope everyone is very happy with their purchase!


In this effect, the fact that it is a metal block is a twist that happens and goes against their assumptions that it is a cellular phone. You might think that it doesn't "change into something" because they never examined it and confirmed that it was a cell phone, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I think that you are being too critical and not seeing this through the eyes of a laymen. You are thinking like a magician and not a laymen.

As I said many times, the laymen and everyone else assumes that it is a cell phone and then it is revealed to be a block of metal. If you don't understand my thinking and the thinking of everyone else who experienced what I did, then so be it.

In terms of your comments about a "back and fourth", you are not going to twist my arm into agreeing with you, nor insult my intelligence on this particular trick just so I agree with you. I stated my opinion and you can agree or disagree. You were the one who asked to have a dialogue about it and I think that I have been more than charitable towards you. We obviously disagree and I have no problem with that.

If you don't like the effect then don't purchase it and if you disagree with my thinking, then so be it. I absolutely love this effect and that's why I purchased it and why I have written positively about it.
The_March_Hare
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On Mar 30, 2020, tomd wrote:
That’s how I also felt watching it for the first time, the metal block was a positive surprise. Good thoughts


Absolutely... and an examinable one at that. After watching the Wizard Product Review, I still thought that it was an optical illusion or that there was something with the phone case. It wasn't until I read the Café that I realized it was something much more sophisticated.
Kaliix
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So I'm curious March_Hare, considering what I wrote below, what category of effect do you see this as? More importantly, what presentation would you use to overcome or make sense of the incongruent appearance/transformation of a block of metal that is shaped like a phone?

Quote:
On Mar 13, 2020, Kaliix wrote:
Any of these effects seem to suffer from the same flaw, at least to me, which is that the block of metal seems incongruent. The only reason it seems to be there is to prove that the penetration phase was supposedly impossible. The trick isn't really a transformation effect because the original item (phone/cards/matches) is never shown. It can't be an appearance because the container was never shown empty. Even the penetration effect seems a little weak to me anyways, because the spectator never actually sees what is being penetrated until the end. At that point, either the block appeared after the object was removed from the hole, or the object penetrated the metal block but either can be true which muddies things initially. I suspect most magicians play this as a penetration. But it's not really. Maybe it's just my perception, but a penetration effect usually is clear about what is being penetrated. A magician may cover said object to penetrate it (mirror, coat thru jacket, balloon, glass, card, table, etc.) but WHAT is being penetrated is most always clear, obvious and generally is shown prior to the penetration. It is not the so in MP, IR or the matchbox version. Additionally, the effect points directly to the method. IMHO, YMMV...
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
The_March_Hare
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Quote:
On Mar 30, 2020, Kaliix wrote:
So I'm curious March_Hare, considering what I wrote below, what category of effect do you see this as? More importantly, what presentation would you use to overcome or make sense of the incongruent appearance/transformation of a block of metal that is shaped like a phone?

Quote:
On Mar 13, 2020, Kaliix wrote:
Any of these effects seem to suffer from the same flaw, at least to me, which is that the block of metal seems incongruent. The only reason it seems to be there is to prove that the penetration phase was supposedly impossible. The trick isn't really a transformation effect because the original item (phone/cards/matches) is never shown. It can't be an appearance because the container was never shown empty. Even the penetration effect seems a little weak to me anyways, because the spectator never actually sees what is being penetrated until the end. At that point, either the block appeared after the object was removed from the hole, or the object penetrated the metal block but either can be true which muddies things initially. I suspect most magicians play this as a penetration. But it's not really. Maybe it's just my perception, but a penetration effect usually is clear about what is being penetrated. A magician may cover said object to penetrate it (mirror, coat thru jacket, balloon, glass, card, table, etc.) but WHAT is being penetrated is most always clear, obvious and generally is shown prior to the penetration. It is not the so in MP, IR or the matchbox version. Additionally, the effect points directly to the method. IMHO, YMMV...


Good question Kaliix, I think that it all depends on how you decide to present it. What I like about it is that you can present it however you want. Does the cellular phone transpose with a steel block or was it a steel block the entire time? The way that I planned on presenting it is like this:

I bought the additional accessories that allow you to show the screen area and the back of it rather freely (about the same amount other gimmicks). I plan on going to gigs or whenever with this thing out and while not drawing a ton of attention to it, making it seem like it is "my phone" so that people become conditioned to the idea that it is my phone. Then when I decide to do it, people will assume that they saw everything that there is to see. I have done this with props many of times and it has always worked out well. As a magician, I usually do not try and define what I do too much because I want to allow them to make of it what they will. If they want to believe that it transposed, then fine, but if they want to believe that it always was a solid steel block, I'm fine with that too.

I realize that often there is an incongruity with effects but that magicians have a bigger problem with it than laymen do. Take Andy Nyman's "WarLock" effect. People will ask, is it mind reading or is it a prediction. I do make an honest attempt at being congruent with my act but sometimes we have to just step away and let it be what it is to the participants. After all it is about them, not our ego. When I was studying for my undergraduate in psychology I decided to interview a hypnotist. I wanted to genuinely know if his participants could not see him when he supposedly convinced them that he was "invisible". His response always stuck with me. He said, "some of them told me after the show that they genuinely could not see me. Others said that I looked transparent and others said that they knew that I was not invisible but that they couldn't bring themselves to not just go along with it."

When I first learned metal bending I shyed away from it because I didn't find it astonishing at all. I also thought that if I was a mind-reader, then mental bending was incongruent with my character. However one day I was put on the spot by three nurses that I work with and an occupational therapist. I was told "show us something" and someone blurted out, "I heard that you can bend spoons like Uri Geller" (who she heard from another co-worker that I had performed it for previously). She went to the kitchen to get a spoon and I felt put on the spot. I went into the first phase of Banachek's routine that he teaches on his Penguin Lecture. All of these people were severely skeptical but it flew past all of them. All of them were going around saying "he never touched it, but somehow he was able to bend it in her hands." I wanted to be taken seriously as a mind reader, not as a mental bender, but their reactions were undeniable. Their reactions were so powerful that I never went into other phases of the metal bending routine because I felt like there was no point and that there was no way that I could top what I had just done. This is when I started not caring so much about what my powers were and took Richard Osterlind's advice, "it's just one of the things that I do."

Bottomline is that if you are looking to me to be able to give you all of the answers that you are looking for, I will fall miserably short. As I said before, I have not received the effect yet. When I do receive it, if it doesn't get me the reactions that I want, then I will either tweak my performance and make sure that I, as the performer, am not the problem but if it still is not that great, I will sell it. You can best believe that I will write an updated review whether I like it or not and that I will be honest about my thoughts as I have with other reviews that I have written here at the Café.
Jack Lu
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My agent told me that the April batch is delayed due to Coronavirus. Is that true?
Armando Cheung
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On Apr 2, 2020, Jack Lu wrote:
My agent told me that the April batch is delayed due to Coronavirus. Is that true?


I think mine is sent as I received a mail from DHL for the delivery
Gaz Lawrence
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Anyone waiting for this will certainly not be disappointed with the engineering quality of it .
It’s beautifully made like all Joao’s products and works flawlessly ( I held one and tried it out at Blackpool ) .
Best health and magic to all Gaz 🙂
MR Effecto
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I seen on Facebook that batch, s we’re getting ready to ship out soon. But I haven’t received any notification yet.
Jack Lu
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On Apr 2, 2020, Armando Cheung wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2020, Jack Lu wrote:
My agent told me that the April batch is delayed due to Coronavirus. Is that true?


I think mine is sent as I received a mail from DHL for the delivery


I confirmed with Joao. He said it's not delayed. Must be something with my agent. Thanks.
Armando Cheung
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I just received my metal phone today.
The quality is amazing and the setup is very easy.( could be done with in 30 sec)
It is impossible to be split.
For your purchase consideration, I would mention when you do the move, there will be “click” sound. In a quiet environment, it probably will be heard. Even though Joao in the video explains two ways to cover it, the handling will be a bit different and may not fit your style. You need to find your handling if you want to do it in quiet environment.
Overall, I love it.
CMR
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Is it still only available from Joao Miranda? I don't see it on Penguin's website.
loudini1972
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I will be ordering mine as soon as my tax return hits, lol!
The_March_Hare
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On Apr 3, 2020, CMR wrote:
Is it still only available from Joao Miranda? I don't see it on Penguin's website.


Only through Joao's website
Nathan Alexander
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Nice review from Ekaterina. Trick of the year?

dman11
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Nice review, made me want one a bit more.....but, for me - I wont pay that price, just a bit too much. Especially since it needs refill stickers that wont be available anymore in 6 months....Maybe if it were a magnetic "sticker" , that would help
Nathan Alexander
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David Penn (and now myself) don't even use the stickers. Smile It's fun to perform, although obviously that hasn't been as much lately.
videoman
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I sometimes have nightmares about getting spectators like Ekaterina's husband. 😀

LOL, just teasing, pretty typical magician's spouse.
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