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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Best False Cuts (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Tom's "Umbrella Cut" can be seen here, and is very nice. But "most natural"? I don't think so. Try using a cut like that (it's basically a running swing cut) in a serious card game and see what folks think!

"Natural" means "the way normal people do it"; this only looks natural to magicians.


I'd add one wrinkle to this argument. We all know normal people who struggle with shuffling cards. Is it worthwhile to adjust one's shuffles so that the magician seems to struggle while doing them?

It's worth mentioning that some performers would actually answer "yes" to that question. Others, though, have an approach to the "natural" concept which is a bit more nuanced, and would argue that the aim might be "the way normal people would do things if they could comfortably handle cards".

The Umbrella Cut might pass that test. I dunno. It looks nice. It does seem to suggest that the person holding the cards is skilled at what they do, which could undermine the effect, but that's going to depend upon the effect in question and whether or not "skill" is a natural suspicion to how it was pulled off.
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Nikodemus
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I don't think Umbrella Cut fits within the definition of "the way normal people would do things".
It makes no sense to extend the meaning of "If they could handle cards comfortably" so far that includes fancy flourishes etc! People who are experts with cards might regard a triple cut in the hands as "normal" - but that is just a reflection of their own familiarity with these techniques.

For most people, the "normal" way to cut cards is a single cut-and-complete. Any triple cut is automatically in the "fancy" category.
The cut will always be done onto a table. Either from the hands, or starting on the table. ANY cut in the hands is a "fancy" move. Also anything ON the table that makes you look like a croupier!

In my opinion the best false cut to attract no attention is the Winnipeg, because it looks like a normal cut, except you take the bottom half first. But I find this hard to do cleanly. So I am happy with a Swing Cut to the table. (As soon as you do it to the table it is automatically a false cut, whereas in the hands it is a real cut). If you are relaxed and casual no one notices the slight anomaly
Gennovense
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A lot of people don't even know how to cut cards so I don't know what's the problem with that. It is also important to know that when performing close up, some people can expect a certain level of skill (I wouldn't play cards with you, oh you must be good with your hands), the Umbrella Cut fits perfectly there and from my personal experience is the best false cut you can do. At the table, however, I prefer others.
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Aug 2, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
For most people, the "normal" way to cut cards is a single cut-and-complete. Any triple cut is automatically in the "fancy" category.


I've performed for regular people who, when given the cards and asked to shuffle them, do a series of awkward in-the-hands cuts, because that's all they're capable of. To them, something like the Umbrella Cut might look like what they're used to doing, only smoother and faster -- in other words, what they could see themselves do naturally if they were more comfortable with cards.

Then again, this is all conjecture until we actually start asking regular people what they saw. Personally, I'm a Greek and Ose magician myself, and even then only within the context of something where there's no heat on the technique.
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ddyment
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Although I stand firmly behind my position that the Winnipeg cut is the best normal-looking false cut, I will happily concur that anyone's false cuts of choice should depend entirely on their character, and their goals.

If you want to produce magic (and not just surprise), or if you do mentalism (as opposed to "mental magic"), then you should be looking for a clean, straightforward, commonplace, non-eyebrow-raising false cut.

If, on the other hand, you want to project manipulative skill, card mastery, etc., then elaborate cuts like the Umbrella (and beyond!) are likely to be more appropriate.
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Ben Daggers
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My "Drop Shuffle" is somewhere between a false shuffle and a false cut, which you may be interested in if you're looking for a deceptive and easy way to give the impression of a mixed and cut deck.

https://theimpossibleco.com/product/drop-shuffle/
ipe
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Quote:
On Aug 2, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Although I stand firmly behind my position that the Winnipeg cut is the best normal-looking false cut, I will happily concur that anyone's false cuts of choice should depend entirely on their character, and their goals.

If you want to produce magic (and not just surprise), or if you do mentalism (as opposed to "mental magic"), then you should be looking for a clean, straightforward, commonplace, non-eyebrow-raising false cut.

If, on the other hand, you want to project manipulative skill, card mastery, etc., then elaborate cuts like the Umbrella (and beyond!) are likely to be more appropriate.


I totally agree with you.

Where I'm from, a triple cut is quite normal for laymen, so I really like and use Jay Ose False Cut because I think it looks more deceptive than the Winnipeg False Cut (even if I love this one too).

Doug, what do you think in term of naturalness and deceptiveness of the false cut explained by Nikodemus?

Quote:
On Jul 19, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
1. Place top packet on the table.
2. Place bottom packet (remainder of deck) on the table to the right of first packet.
3. Pick up first packet and place on top of second packet



By the way, does someone know the name/references of this false cut?
What would a real mindreader do?
ddyment
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Ipe wrote:
Quote:
Where I'm from, a triple cut is quite normal for laymen, so I really like and use Jay Ose False Cut because I think it looks more deceptive than the Winnipeg False Cut (even if I love this one too).

Yes, these choices have geographic sensitivity as well, to be sure. In some countries, doing a plain riffle shuffle is seen as a demonstration of high pasteboard proficiency.


Quote:
Doug, what do you think in term of naturalness and deceptiveness of the false cut explained by Nikodemus?
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
1. Place top packet on the table.
2. Place bottom packet (remainder of deck) on the table to the right of first packet.
3. Pick up first packet and place on top of second packet

Do I think it would pass muster much of the time? Yes, absolutely.
Do I think it's a good choice for naturalness and deceptiveness? No, because a normal tabled cut has two actions (thunk, thunk), whereas this one has three (thunk, thunk, thunk). Many people would pick up on that (if only subconsciously) and perceive that something was wrong.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
ipe
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Ipe wrote:
Quote:
Where I'm from, a triple cut is quite normal for laymen, so I really like and use Jay Ose False Cut because I think it looks more deceptive than the Winnipeg False Cut (even if I love this one too).

Yes, these choices have geographic sensitivity as well, to be sure. In some countries, doing a plain riffle shuffle is seen as a demonstration of high pasteboard proficiency.


Yes, my country is one of those. Only few people can do a tabled riffle shuffle, they are usually poker enthusiasts. The in-hands riffle shuffle is even rarer, they are usually (always?) magicians. Even the overhand shuffle is quite rare here.

Here we do a shuffle that I think has no name. It is something like a super sloppy and super imperfect in-hands faro shuffle, where usually the deck is interwoven along the long edges. And the end phase of the shuffle doesn't have any flourishes: the cards are simply pushed together and then squared. (Exploiting this geographical habit, I mimic this shuffle and instead of doing the real shuffle I do a series of cuts, preserving the cyclical order of the deck.)

Quote:
On Aug 10, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Quote:
Doug, what do you think in term of naturalness and deceptiveness of the false cut explained by Nikodemus?
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
1. Place top packet on the table.
2. Place bottom packet (remainder of deck) on the table to the right of first packet.
3. Pick up first packet and place on top of second packet

Do I think it would pass muster much of the time? Yes, absolutely.
Do I think it's a good choice for naturalness and deceptiveness? No, because a normal tabled cut has two actions (thunk, thunk), whereas this one has three (thunk, thunk, thunk). Many people would pick up on that (if only subconsciously) and perceive that something was wrong.


It makes totally sense, thank you. ;-)


By the way, can this false cut be the one named "Richard Himber's False Cut"?
What would a real mindreader do?
landmark
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Quote:
Here we do a shuffle that I think has no name.


I believe that's sometimes referred to as a Greek shuffle.
ipe
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Quote:
On Aug 11, 2020, landmark wrote:
Quote:
Here we do a shuffle that I think has no name.


I believe that's sometimes referred to as a Greek shuffle.


I found here on the Cafè, the user "Alessandro Scotti" shared a page where he explains the shuffle (he called it "Italian Shuffle" because the lack of a proper name) with a textual description, some images and even two videos: http://www.walkofmind.com/magic/italian_shuffle.htm

Is this "Italian Shuffle" the same as the "Greek Shuffle"?

A good thing about the Italian Shuffle is that it is easy to retain the top card or the bottom card.

My "False Italian Shuffle" is just a simplified version of the "Optical Shuffle". In the "Optical Shuffle" you mimic the "Overhand Shuffle" so you mimic more shuffle actions (typically 4 or 5 as in a normal "Overhand Shuffle"); whereas in my "False Italian Shuffle" you do a single throw (as in the last move of the "Optical Shuffle").
What would a real mindreader do?
landmark
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I think I first learned that name "Greek Shuffle" from a Lennart Green tape where he does what he calls a false "Greek Shuffle." Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think so.

Anyway, sorry to have gotten us off the subject of false cuts.
This looks promising:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2J3vO3vq0Y
The Burnaby Kid
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Lennart Green has EXCELLENT work on the Greek Shuffle.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
ipe
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Quote:
On Aug 11, 2020, landmark wrote:
I think I first learned that name "Greek Shuffle" from a Lennart Green tape where he does what he calls a false "Greek Shuffle." Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think so.

OK, Green talks as if the "Greek Shuffle" is a false shuffle without mentioning what real shuffle is mimicking. By the way, the "Greek Shuffle" is the same of my "False Italian Shuffle" but better. Smile


Quote:
On Aug 11, 2020, landmark wrote:
Anyway, sorry to have gotten us off the subject of false cuts.
This looks promising:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2J3vO3vq0Y

Yes, very interesting. But, as Doug said, I'm really interested only in cuts that mimic as close as possible real cuts.
What would a real mindreader do?
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