Fove .....there are no shortcuts to good work.
You must practice and do the work.
What are you looking for?
Forte's books are well worth the price but you still must work hard to get through them to perfect the moves.
Jason's DVD's that were suggested show you the basic work as a foundation to learning "the work" you still must practice it to get there.
Sal's material is wonderful and well taught but again you must practice it to get to a point you can understand it and use it.
I guess I do not really understand what you are looking for. Do you just want to know things or do you want to learn and do them?

I guess that I'm trying to collect as much valuable information on the subject as possible. I've been into gambling sleight of hand for a couple of monhs now, and I'm just trying to learn as much as possible.
Fove

According to the official site the second run of the first printing already sold out.

A second edition is in the works for June/July. It will address typos/ errors and, "will be available for as long as there’s interest in the research."

A forum in GSOH website for those who bought the books would be great

Gambling sleight of hand is of no value to the gambler, unless he is a collector of antique curiosities.

Not much going on over there, just wanted people to know about the reddit area

reddit.com/r/forteyears

Hope you are all staying healthy

Cag seems silent, which has been worrying me.

I like your style tommy but let's see if I can elaborate on that. I'm a little more verbose than tommy although his comment says it all mostly.

While it is true that gambling sleight of hand is becoming more and more obsolete in many instances and situations, it is still not a curiosity...at least not yet in my opinion.

For the hobbyist and demonstrator class, it is a joy to learn and practice even if in 99% of the cases they will never dare to use what they learned under fire in a tough money game to find out how deceptive using the moves they covet and fall in love with would actually work under fire, if at all.

The reason is they don't know how to use the moves they learn and practice and of course don't have to know how to apply them. Most hobbyists would not have the nerve to apply them under close scrutiny where there were serious consequence's in getting caught. They don't make any money with the moves they learn, it is more the joy of learning, mastering and demonstrating what they covet. And that is quite a legitimate pursuit in and of itself.

Indeed many of these hobbyists become very skillful, so skillful they can fool themselves into thinking they would be successful using a great looking move all by itself under fire, because they perhaps fooled some well-known big name card player or WSOP bracelet winner. But try doing that move all by itself under fire in a round game with some experienced players and see how long it would last, because one would need a lot more than the move to be successful. Heck they could probably fool some well know players with a Svengali deck or four ace trick, but so what? What would that prove? A deceptive move all by itself in a demo is little more than a magic trick with different dressing.

Some others who have never been there for the most part, monetize these moves and teach them to others, for a price of course, by writing books or making videos for sale. Still others of this category become self-styled gambling experts and sell their academic knowledge and experience, both good and bad, to others that know less than they. It is smart to monetize what you know if you can.

But of course, using a move or gaff is always situational. There are some games, if one has grift sense gained through actual experience, where one can use sleight of hand to great advantage. However, the general rule is, as mentioned by Maskelyne in Sharps and Flats over 100 years ago, is that sleight of hand is practiced by the lowest order of the card sharping community. For Maskelyne card sharping moves were simply too well know back in his day and someone with a knowledge of moves would pick up or suspect that a move was being executed, and that was back in the late 1800s.

Obviously the situation today is even worse for the sleight of hand card sharper with the myriad of hobbyists, magicians, demonstrators, gambling "experts" and so on who learn, demonstrate, teach and expose a multitude of classic sleight of hand methods ad nausea.

Of course Forte knows the difference between learning moves and the application of moves based upon his earlier days of having done some hustling and he delineates between mastering or learning a move and the actual application of using moves or any gaff in his book. Application is a whole different world and 99% of demonstrators and hobbyist have little understanding of this world but of course many think they do know all about it even thought they have never been there. They just know they can beat tough money games "ipso facto" because they can perform some pretty moves?????????? Hey, that's okay with me.

However, if they did try some of their pretty moves in a tough game where they could get hurt if caught, after their anus stopped puckering and their fingers stopped working the way they always used to work, and if they could control their urge to vomit at the table, they might decide it is not worth going forward with that endeavor.

Most hobbyist don't know that the people who are successful at hustling on a professional level are NOT movers or sleight of hand enthusiasts. Professional hustlers are basically thieves with a thief mentality first and foremost. Period!!! And "therein lies the rub" as Shakespeare so eloquently put it...and it is one of a hell of a big rub.

Specific moves may be used by a pro from time to time and can be employed quite successfully in certain situations. But for the most part mastering a myriad of gambling moves is reserved primarily for the hobbyist class. In fact, one of the definable distinctions between professional hustlers and hobbyists who have never been there is the number of sleights they have mastered. A pro usually does not bother to learn a bunch of moves. He works on what gets the money. That is what he perfects because that is how he pays his bills and supports himself. Everything else is just ego gratification and a waste of money-making time.

So simply enjoy Forte's book, moves and card tricks for what they are, master them, preform them, delight an audience, get ego gratification, have fun or whatever you desire to gain from the endeavor. It is a lot of fun and no one is deprecating that endeavor. Heck, tell your audiences you have traveled world and made a fortune with the moves you are showing them or whatever turns you on.

Go for it guys and gals. Yippe!!!

Well said cag

I found this thread while looking for an online forum to engage in serious conversation about Forte's work. Suggestions?

I have both of Forte's GSOH books. Also, the YouTube link shows my false shuffles and deals circa 2019 (before reading Forte's ideas); it shows my status as a committed sleight-of-hand enthusiast who does pseudo-cheating demos. I consider myself a student of the art with an interest in improving my technique, continuing Forte's research, and increasing the legitimacy of my demos.

I requested an invite to the Reddit group mentioned in this thread; I would like to find an active community for serious conversation about the book's moves and ideas.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jk62oqh5g

P.S. I see that a group exists on Facebook, but I have decided to staff of that platform. :-/

The subreddit never took off. There is a Facebook group, and a discord - both don’t get a lot of use. I think a lot of it went private

Maskelyne thought devices were better than sleight of hand but Erdnase thought the opposite.

The other day I found out why: Nevil Maskelyne re Sharps and Flats, started out as a watchmaker and he thought that mechanical devices were more impressive than sleight of hand for magic and said that he had not practised sleight of hand for over 30 years.

Although there is not a lot of discussion in the Facebook group, when someone does make a post they usually get high quality responses very quickly.

Andru

Here goes my first post.

I got GSOH this week, and I haven't been able to put it down.

I have a question about a line in one of the books. I'd like to ask in a more private place, but it seems those places are inactive judging by the posts here. So I will keep it vague and not say too much.

In one of the routines in it says to do an "display dodge." I tried looking throughout the books and I can't find a mention of that. Is there a way someone can explain what a display dodge is or share a page number that will clear that up?

Page 752.

A.

That's what I get for jumping straight to the routines. I feel dumb. Thanks!

No problem. There's tons of stuff to work through and I'm always going back and forth between the volumes and probably will be doing so for several years.

A.

Anyone out there care to help me troubleshoot Riffling Down and Riffling Up? Having a hard time with it. In DMs of course.

Does anyone know whether there will be a third printing or not? Sadly the book is sold out right now

I got an email a few weeks back and theres some less than perfect sets for like 150.... you might want to contact them... it might be your last chance to scoop a set..