Hi to all

I have played around with both the three cup routine but have now settled on a two cup as it takes up less space when doing walk around.

I keep the cups inside a hollowed out book as it keeps prying hands away from them until I want to do the routine.

Line is "Most magicians get their tricks from out of a book and so do I" - open book and produce cups.

What routine do you prefer Two or Three?

Paula

It doesn't matter. 1-2-3 or more... it is what you get out of it.

I agree with Pete, any routine is good, as long as the reaction is what you are looking for, then stay with that one.

Right now I do a chop cup routine, only because the weather is warmer up here in Canada, and I sweat too much with a jacket on, plus I don't want my pockets bulging with stuff.

Whatever works for you. A less then mature and courteous suggestion might be to work with two cups, and let the audience either start to giggle or not.

There are a FEW things you can do with three cups that do not work as well with two cup routines.

In general, find whatever works for your audiences. It does not hurt to learn a few extra routines over the long run.

Hi,

I've seen this line and idea used a few times, and I think it's really effective on lay people.

Rather than using a hollowed out book, some of the 'remaindered' book shops in the UK also sell stationery sets in boxes which resemble a book. They may be useful for carrying close up props (although I'd think in general they'd not be deep enough to hold cups).

Brian.

I have never used two, but for many years I have toyed with the idea of checking out a couple of two-cup routines that are in print/on video.

Anyone out there using two on a regular basis and able to give pros and cons?

I realize this comment is going to take the thread a bit offline, and I don't say this to offend anyone, but I wonder if the line, "Most magicians get their tricks from out of a book and so do I", is really what a magician wants to communicate.

I ask this because I don't want my audience to think I "get my tricks from out of a book" (even though really I may have gotten it out of a magic book written for children, and I have already admitted in this post that I have considered two-cup routines that come from books)! I want them to think that what I'm doing is really something special right from the start. I don't want them to think that they could do the same after a visit to the local library!

I just wonder if the laugh is worth it in the long run. Any thoughts? If you do answer my question, please keep in mind Paula's original question so we don't lose sight of the thread.

Terry

Hi,

Like most things that we say it is not what we say but how we say it. It would also depend on your character and also your audience.

The line would fit in well with my approach to magic, which is more, lets have fun rather than look at how good I am.

It is also good in performing to change the pace - mixing serious spots with more light hearted action. Again only if it fits in with your style.

Wizzi

Remember, laymen don't know if the routine SHOULD be done with 3 cups.

If you look at some early prints you will also see that some routines use cups of different sizes/shapes.

Again, it doesn't matter... just fool 'em and make 'em smile best you can.

Pete

"SHOULD be done with three cups?" Never seen that in print.

Same as a card trick should be done with a deck of cards? I did one with no cards whatsoever and one with spoons.

;-)

Forgot to add; watching someone shuffle 52 tea spoons is very funny. Riffle and fan always get a laugh.


Paula

I agree with Pete.

I was doing a show with another magician. We cross checked to see that we didn't do any of the same effects (I won "Ambitious Card! Anyway, after the show people told us that they where impressed how we could fool them twice with the same trick. He did a classic cups and balls, I did a chop-cup routine. We both produced final loads. To the spectators, it was the same trick. "The one where fruit magically appeared under an empty cup"

I thought three was the way to go....then I saw Tommy Wonder do his version and everything changed.

B.

I have seen some very good cups and balls routines using two cups. I am working on a routine myself using only two cups because of the spatial requirements. You can still get the full bang out of just two cup, I think.

I know this is going to be redundant, but I've never let that stop me before. The main thing that counts is the impact that the routine has on the spectators. That's all. Period. End of story.

When I worked the Renaissance Festival circuit, I did a chop cup routine, for three reasons:
1) I was more comfortable with it.
2) It was the right length for the time slot I was working it into.
3) It got the right reactions from the audience.

I had a number of magicians criticise me because I was doing a routine with a chop cup -- "They didn't have chop cups during that time period! It's not a 'real' cups and balls routine!' and other hogwash."

My answer was this:
The cup I am/was using was made of leather. It looked like any old leather cup some wizard might have around his cave. The audience has no idea that there is a gimmick. Who cares! It's the audience response that counts. Maybe that's why I lasted 26 years!

I like the idea of taking the cups out of the book. I have a huge leather book that I use for some of my story/bizarre work. One of the items in it is, you guessed it, a leather cup. When I take it out, I use the line "Here's the oldest trick in the book."

Bill,
I like it..the "corniest" lines are the best and a groan/laugh is a sign of appreciation in my mind.
Howard

Regarding the number of cups used in the routine -- it depends entirely on the "sell." About a month ago, I was demonstrating mini cups to our local IBM ring. I had four different sets with me. At the end of the demonstration, I lifted each cup to display a load that I had sneaked under there -- a TWELVE CUP routine.

I wouldn't do that for the lay public, though.

There are no set rules to performing Cups and Balls...or for magic in general. Pete's advice is right on...choose the method that works best for you. As for myself...in a formal routine I use 3 cups, behind a bar I use 2 cups...and if table hopping, I use 1 cup. I base my method on space availibility,

Mike

All of that makes perfect sense. Trying to do a three cup routine while table hopping, even with miniature cups, is a very difficult situation.

I'll get to your question Paula. I use two cups. Originally took two cups because my venue was table magic and it took less space, as most magicians mentioned. While developing my routine it became obvious that it is easier to create a more clear routine (in laymen's perspective) than a three cup.
Also I noticed that 3 cup routines tend to be long for real-life performance(one of the pitfalls when you become a cups and balls afficionado).
So I stick to my two cup routine. Even when I developed a stage/parlour routine it stayed two cups (Jumbo's).
I helped Auke van Dokkum develope his now popular cups and I use them exclusively, though only two standards and two jumbo's;-)

I happen to love two cup routines, but they sometimes suffer from something very Vernon-esque.

Because the Vernon routine is so proliferate amongst performers, there is little attention paid to the actual rhythms associated with the routine. My own early primary mistakes in creating a two-cup effect stem from that alone--I tried to maintain the innate cadence of Vernon's three cup routine and jam it into a two cup one. In a musical sense, this is preposterously difficult.

Instead of trying to deconstruct the Vernon routine down to a two cup routine, try stripping away all predelictions, phases, subtleties, and ruses. Try imagining how a good routine would sound in your head, before venturing it in your hands--then start from the ground up.

Now I realize that nobody here is complaining about difficulty crossing the two-cup Rubicon, but the very fact that an occasional "pros and cons" thread will arise really provides a chance to emphasise just how large a chasm can be created between two routines with either the introduction or removal of one cup--aside from the more obvious aesthetic and logistical issues.

Pete's right. I see questions like this here all the time. It's like saying "What's the best tasting fruit?"