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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Zoom Or Remote Online Performances (66 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mindpro
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Sure, I can see that but that is more about performance and presentation though. I see little being attached or discussed from these from a business perspective, which is what TB is about. There are many other forums where the performance and presentation, I would think, would be better suited.

Perhaps the time has come to have a Zoom performance forum?

I just see 9 pages of how this thread got way off track to its original intent.

Also, most of these Zoom performers are not discussing the business behind these performances.

Many here also fail to realize many of these are not as they appear to be or want to believe them to be.
imgic
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Mindpro, good call out. I should have expanded on my recent post. I was dismayed at the things I was seeing on Zoom when the Pandemic first hit. It was a combination of factors:
- Planned events, such as conventions, were hastily converted to online formats. Folks were just doing what they'd planned to do live, but on cam. In many instances it didn't work well.
- Folks weren't experienced in what works best on Zoom. People are now putting thought into what works on webcam...creating new routines, reformatting existing work.
- Initially I think a lot of online performances were attempts to keep a sense of community...of trying to keep connected, and not so much a new business opportunity. Performers weren't necessarily looking to monetize their work. Partly because...
- Folks weren't sure how long this was going to last. So much misunderstanding, misinformation, and lack of leadership caused a lot of speculation, with many thinking it would be over quickly, or at least with higher temperatures of summer. With realization it's not going away, folks are adapting and seeking to monetize online work.

Just as with shows, the better performances will command more demand. Not only new and reformatted routines, but performers are upgrading camera and microphones. Early performances were clearly on laptop cams.

Also, Innovation will drive higher views and revenue. For me, it was painful to watch Shawn in the zoom convention. But a chance to be in a Zoom lecture with him and a small limited group? Yes, that's worth $25 ticket. And others think so too....he's sold out 2 and is looking to add third session. Very smart of him to move to a lecture format.

I've no idea how Stuarts MacDonald's online show will be, but I'm willing to bet it'll be great. Having heard him talk how he prepared his routine for "Fool Us" he uses tenets of Process Improvement to refine and constantly improve his show. He's got great attention to detail. Just look at the photoshop work done in the trailer for his show. It's like something out of Forest Gump.

So yes, the thread got a bit derailed. Yes, I was critical of what I saw online as lockdowns hit. But it's endearing to see performers adapting to "the new normal."
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Dannydoyle
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I will say that I have LONG BEFORE this hit thought the "lecture" circuit would come to online and never leave. I have never thought that it was worthwhile for the lecturer to go to each group, when it could EASILY be done online.

The difference is OBVIOUSLY that nobody cares if the lecture is that entertaining. I can prove that by just suggesting you attend a lecture live. They are usually the furthest thing from entertaining.

So now that it can be interactive, and small groups it really seems like a great play for them. Mind you I have NOT seen what Shawn is doing, but would assume he would adapt to it pretty well.

I do not believe this is a departure to far from the intent of this thread as it is a business trying to do lectures.

My stance on live performance streamed has not changed though.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Like I said in the beginning of this topic, “When there is no demand you can create one” And it looks like some have done a good job of creating the demand. No its not as good as a live show, but there is not much demand for live right now. I think things will get better sometimes next year, but that’s not as bad as it sounds because we’re more than half way there already.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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As usual you completely miss the point I do admire your commitment to the bit.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jul 24, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
As usual you completely miss the point I do admire your commitment to the bit.



Danny, I wasn’t responding to anything you said. Just making a point in general, so I don't think I missed my own point. Smile

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Jed Maxwell
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Quote:
On Jul 24, 2020, Mindpro wrote:
Perhaps the time has come to have a Zoom performance forum?


There is: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......=12&4055
"You're a mentalist!"
Mindpro
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Thanks Jed. While that is not necessarily a Zoom forum, that was my exact point when I said "There are many other forums where the performance and presentation, I would think, would be better suited." The discussion here could be more productive if it was more about the business aspects behind these types of performances, which is what the thread was intended to be about. For the months of April and May, I received more of these types of questions and inquiries than anything else.

Enough performers are now doing or have tried these types of shows to be able to have decent conversations about the pros and cons, problems, obstacles, setbacks, and techniques that they've used to overcome such concerns. Also, marketing, promotion, pricing, formats, performance lengths, receptions, problems, complaints, and so much more could be helpful to these guys. Since this now seems to be carrying on longer than many originally thought, it seems even more of interest than ever to delve into.
Lior
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WE have a facebook group with more than 1345 members.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/667053387393373/
(you just need to know: how many steps.
It's very easy to mentalists to answer)

there are many great threads about anything you want to know about
Zoom shows on the technical aspects and the magical aspects

Me and many more are doing a lot of shows and looks it will
continue a part of our offering for few years

Using OBS you can overcome many of the problems that
we have with Zoom and make it looks like an interactive
magic show.

See you there

Lior
Talk To The Screen. The best effect for professionals
http://www.theliortouch.com

The Big Package plus with the Big Trivia, The small Trivia, The puzzles
The First letters, The Celebrities, Subliminal PowerPoint, the VMC lecture
and many more routines [/url]

Penguin Live lecture http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7645
PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009
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Dannydoyle
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Actually no you can't overcome them all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2020, Lior wrote:
Me and many more are doing a lot of shows and looks it will
continue a part of our offering for few years

Using OBS you can overcome many of the problems that
we have with Zoom and make it looks like an interactive
magic show.


If you are a Mac user - “ecamm live” is worth checking out as well.
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Actually no you can't overcome them all.


To be fair, he said overcome "many", not all. My personal feeling is that outside of doing an effect for a single person where you can modify and sculpt as you go to meet their specific needs and reactions, every other type of performance medium has some compromises. I personally LOVE doing larger shows but at the same time, I accept that the more viewers I have, the more I have to water down certain elements to compensate as I'm constantly "averaging" for their reactions. I am not a fan of magic on Television nor online but I will accept that it allows for certain methodology that is not open to me as a stage performer. On the other hand, I can do certain misdirection elements on a larger stage that would never work in the more intimate environment of a "zoom" show. It also requires a totally different performance style more like film technique rather then a theater style.

Great performers can always transcend any medium. The goal is to be a great performer!
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Bairefoot
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I did not have to do not one zoom show or Facebook live show. I am very fortunate. But nothing against anyone who did to try and make some money.
imgic
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My daughter bought me “tickets” to Piffs online show Friday night. Show went a little over an hour.

The production value were great. Good camera and mics. He was creative in use of Zoom rooms to bring volunteers “into” the show. Good use of prerecorded bits (mainly Mr Piffles). Only issue was technical issues with some of volunteers. Some poor mics. One volunteer turned her cam off. But Puff just rolled with it and used as fodder for jokes.

Overall we were happy with show and had a good time.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Stephen Thompson
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If you're interested in Zoom shows, check out www.VideoChatMagic.com

It's a rich collection of over 35 tricks, tools, and essays all specifically addressing the challenges and opportunities of magic over video chat. Contributors include Max Maven, Jim Steinmeyer, Luke Jermay, Pete McCabe and Richard Wiseman (and many more).

Luis de Matos said: "As magicians reinvent their performances for remote environments Video Chat Magic is unveiling the most effective ways to succeed in this new medium".

Jon Armstrong "Required reading for anyone who wants to do strong magic in this new medium".
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