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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » The effect of exposure (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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I have never worried about exposure.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Perhaps it hurts them to talk about it. The Vietnam veterans were the last ones to bring up the topic of Vietnam. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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Quote:
On May 11, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
Professional magicians rarely use the term trick in their patter. The word trick is a technical term which essentially means the secret method or device and is primarily used when talking shop.


Yea I'm not sure this is right. The method is the method, gaffes and gimmicks come to mind for the devices. I've never really used the word trick in this fashion you suggest.

Laymen use the word trick all the time however.

I could be way off.


I agree with Danny here, though I am not a professional in the way he is.

Yes, the concept of magic includes the idea of there being a "trick" involved, i.e. something the performer knows that the observer does not.
Many magic books includes puzzles and mental games only solvable if a person knows the trick. Spectators may cry, "Show me the trick,"
that is not a desire to learn how to perform it, only to discover the secret part that allowed them to be mystified/surprised.

Usually they are disappointed in learning it - or the offered explanation. If an explanation is given it need not be the real one at all.
Consider the sucker effects in which an exposure is provided or allowed as a mistake. Then the observer is set up for a greater surprise.

but, there is little advantage to a performer to refer to "trick" either as the secret or what came in the package - unless it is to set up the observers.

Jeff McBride may start of his show by explaining a trick. He used the "finger sausage" illusion the last time I saw him. It is a trick. It is not magic.
The, when everyone is busy playing with their fingers before their eyes, he lays his little sausage on the table. He is now established as a magician.
The work "trick" is never used again, nor any effect named. He just does things.

Magicians do not "do tricks" - they create conditions under which magic can occur in the mind of the observer.

It is accepted that some secret knowledge is involved - to remove fear if nothing else. There is nothing to expose except mechanics and devices that are no the real secrets at all.

At the end of any children's show I like to gift away packets of Adair's Butterfly. It can be performed by anyone and has a trick to it - a scientific principle.
It also touches on a greater magic of metamorphosis. Any ideas that I used tricks in my show is quickly forgotten.

What have I exposed?

The sadness is that anyone can easily "do tricks" while learning to perform effects is more difficult and leaving an audience with "must be magic" quite difficult.
With the ready exposure of the YouTube variety, many are attracted to performing magic for the wrong reason and stop with the "tricks" - never realizing the real secrets.

just opinions, of course. But in the tens of thousands of times I used a magic effect with business owners as part of a presentation or evaluation,
only a hand full asked, "what is the trick?" Those usually had a favorite trick they wanted to show me.

Most reacted with, "Oh, I have been looking at my problems the wrong way," or "Maybe my situation is not impossible to solve."

When performing for entertainment as Danny does the expectations of the audience is different, and tuning into that may be the greatest trick of all.

I choose not to perform that way any more since I am not very good at reading today's audiences. I don't what to expose my limitations.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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tommy
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Some professional magicians have never created a new trick in their life. Therefore, then, exposure of the tricks these magicians use does not violate their intellectual property rights but violates the intellectual property rights of the creators of them tricks. To the creators, exposure is like copying somebodies invention and giving it away or something like that. Some of the best creators did not perform as professionals but made a profit selling their tricks to those who did.

Now all the old creators are dead and gone having died from the effect of exposure. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Once it is sold any complaint of exposure really is silly.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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All that is hidden will be revealed, by the creator who needs the money. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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balbec
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I understand there is a big controversy there, but come on, it has to be said... without some sort of exposure, there would not be any professionnal magician and probably no serious amator.

Exposure is the teaser that get child, teens and grow up interested in learning more. It makes them watch more than a couple of show, learn about the magician, then the arts, buy the books, the tools, the booklet and so on...

This should be obvious since any creative industy, from music to painting to sport, rely on the same information diffusion mecanism : top pros -> pros -> core fans -> fans -> general public. The core fans need to know more than the simple fans, who need to know more than the public, so they can educate and promote what there are doing. In magic, there would be no amateur magicians, no interested people... and then.... no public, if there were not a constant stream of exposure from one population to the other.

Want to promote magic? I mean, not individually, but as a community? Then let people know more, learn more, let them learn more about the DL, let them try it at home, and go from there to serious books and to deeper secrets without building walls everywhere. If millions of people were interested in knowing the last version of the KM, then books would sell more, great magician would be more famous, magic as a whole would get more attention.... and so on. Magic is large enough, deep enough, interesting enough not to worry about openess or exposure. New ideas will still be there, provided people are willing to see them.
David Todd
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2020, ChrisPayne wrote:
For feature items I will layer methods to make that hard, also I will not use the common title of a trick to make it easier for them to find - so for example I don't refer to "Cards Across" with those words.


Oh, yes, this thing where some magicians announce the name of the marketed effect , it drives me crazy. Why not just give your audience a list of links so they can more easily look up how it's done , save them the trouble of typing it in to a search engine ? Here are two examples I noticed recently on YouTube:

"___________ performs Levent's Salt Pour" (so now Google that trick title and see what you get)

and

"___________ performs the Blaney Ladder Suspension."

Aside from the foolishness of giving out the marketed name of the trick , with something like the Blaney suspension illusion it's not about emphasizing the ladders , duh ... it's about levitating/suspending a person in mid-air . The step-ladders should be incidental , they are just there to hold up the board. In the audience's view it could just as well have been a couple of chairs or sawhorses or crates , right ? So you don't call attention to the ladders in the title of your video. Smile
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2020, David Todd wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 29, 2020, ChrisPayne wrote:
For feature items I will layer methods to make that hard, also I will not use the common title of a trick to make it easier for them to find - so for example I don't refer to "Cards Across" with those words.


Oh, yes, this thing where some magicians announce the name of the marketed effect , it drives me crazy. Why not just give your audience a list of links so they can more easily look up how it's done , save them the trouble of typing it in to a search engine ? Here are two examples I noticed recently on YouTube:

"___________ performs Levent's Salt Pour" (so now Google that trick title and see what you get)

and

"___________ performs the Blaney Ladder Suspension."

Aside from the foolishness of giving out the marketed name of the trick , with something like the Blaney suspension illusion it's not about emphasizing the ladders , duh ... it's about levitating/suspending a person in mid-air . The step-ladders should be incidental , they are just there to hold up the board. In the audience's view it could just as well have been a couple of chairs or sawhorses or crates , right ? So you don't call attention to the ladders in the title of your video. Smile


I have not seen a magician use the marketed name of an effect, but would walk out if I did. No joke. I don't spend too much time at magic shows mind you, and only go to guys who work a lot so maybe that is a thing I don't know. But it astounds me anyone would actually do such a thing and call it "patter". (A word that bugs me in the first place but that is another thread.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
David Todd
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2020, tommy wrote:


Yeah, ok, sure , but "The Cups and Balls" is the generic name of the effect (not a specific version), but it's also what you use in performing the effect (cups ... and balls ... ). Not sure what else you would call it ?

But if someone posted their video (intended for a lay audience, not for other magicians) titled "Dai Vernon's Cups and Balls Routine" or "Ross Bertram's Cups and Balls Routine" , or "Tommy Wonder's Two Cups and Balls routine" , that's where it gets questionable , giving too many bread crumbs for people to follow.

It's also one of those effects which if performed at an expert level (a la Ricky Jay) even IF someone looks up how it's done and sort of grasps the basics of the method, they're still going to be bamboozled by the expert handling.

Ricky Jay actually refers to what he is performing as “The History Lesson” and also calls it “The Game”, and mentions that early on some people called it “The Shell Game”. Most often he continues to refer to it by the generic title “The Game”. At the very end he concludes by saying “and that’s the Mystery of the Cups”. But he never names it formally as “The Cups and Balls” in his performance. Someone else (not Ricky Jay) posted the video titled “Ricky Jay - The Cups and Balls Performance”.
Dannydoyle
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Doing a cups and balls routine is by the very definition of the routine going to involve someone who can google cups and balls. It is not the point at all.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MikeLarkin
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A lot of magicians seem to delight in exposing magic they had absolutely zero hand in creating. Not only do they cheapen magic, they also spoil it for the next generation. We are just custodians of these secrets, and they are there to be shared with those with genuine interest who can utilise them to entertain others.
Dannydoyle
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Not really.

Magicians need to be more than the sum of their secrets.

We are custodians of nothing. Who exactly decides who does or does not have a genuine interest? What metric is used exactly to decide such interest? Why must they be used to entertain others? Many collectors never even try to entertain or expose but just enjoy knowing.

If guys choose to expose methods so be it. The art of magic will certainly survive. It has survived exposure in grand scale and will continue to.

Better to buy a donkey and find a windmill.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
George Ledo
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I've never understood why performers of magic might want to say, for instance, "This is John Doe's Vanishing Elephant" or even "I'm going to perform The Vanishing Elephant."

Magicians are supposed to do magic, not demonstrate props or pre-packaged works. When an orchestra says they're playing Beethoven's Fifth, it's admitting that the piece has already been created and that they're performing their rendition if it. So yeah, when then The Great Whoosis says he or she is performing "the vanishing elephant," it says that the trick already exists and the magician is just performing it.

I would much rather hear a performer of magic say "I'm going to vanish an elephant," or not even that.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On May 24, 2021, MikeLarkin wrote:
A lot of magicians seem to delight in exposing magic they ...
That's a reaction to a market for 'secrets' in a culture which confuses information with intimacy.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
ChrisPayne
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It can be a reasonable presentational ploy to build up a piece of magic by referring to its history, reputation, difficulty etc. It makes the piece special, puts it on a pedestal and helps create interest, this particularly applies to the classics - cups and balls, Sawing a lady in half, but lesser classics such as the Sub trunk or Cards across. Robert Harbin presented the Linking Rings, complete with patter to the effect "You might have seen these for sale in joke shops where the ring has a cut in it - these aren't like that they are perfectly solid....look". Usually though, even if referring to a tradition or history, why make it easy for people to search by giving them the name? Unfortunately a lot of classic tricks have very simple names!
Jonathan Townsend
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If you’re presenting, i.e. performing then do whatever serves your shows. Go ahead and try presenting as historian, salesman, puzzled magic shop customer, lucky flea market customer, … just (please) find the magic in the tricks so the audience can enjoy that too.

If you’re doing history or demonstration decide if you are using trickery to show or to hide facts. Are you showing a landscape or painting a picture? And if you are going to play a game with them … figure out how to handle losing in a way that still wins the audience.
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NEKKODDD
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Magicians that expose secrets to get followers is very bothersome to me personally.
Pop Haydn
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Gentlemen and Ladies:

Just do your own work--quit looking over your shoulder.

What does magic mean for you? How are you going to best express that? How do you find your continuing source of joy in your work? What is it that you want people to know about you and your art?

You have no control over others in this field.

Do your own work and leave everyone else alone.

Magic will survive. There will always be those who find the joy in it and a way to share it.

The rest is all preening and posing and foolishness.
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