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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » The effect of exposure (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On Jul 3, 2021, tommy wrote:
An actor once played me and so I must be a character.


Lol… that might be true depending on where they saw you! Channing Tatum played me in a film and I assure you it was based off me as a real person. Just depends on the situation I guess.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Pop Haydn
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I think that in the audience's mind, every performer is a character. They will assume things and make judgements about the performer based on their prior experiences and prejudices. The performer either takes control of how his character is portrayed, or not. The backstory and motivations the audience will create for the magician may not be the one the performer would prefer.
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 2, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm just using your Greg Brady exact words standard is all and applying it to you the way you do to everyone else.

Wow, dude, you are flat out losing it.

1. It’s YOUR Greg Brady statement. You made a clear definitive blanket statement, which now admit was inaccurate, by using the definitive “can’t”. But to try and wiggle out of being flat out wrong you are attempting to blame others, distort what you said, distort what others said, and dilute your incorrect blanket statement.

2. I have not applied any statement here in this thread to “everyone else”. I have merely pointed out one can, and some do, credit the creators of the things they perform. The examples are trickling in from others, so you are in spin mode to lessen the sting of being wrong when you said, “It can’t be done.”

3. Your absolutely absurd claim that if one credits one part, one must credit all parts shows how tenuous your position was... before it collapsed.
Spin away Danny.
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 1, 2021, George Ledo wrote:
But maybe I should have been clearer: I was asking about magicians giving credit.

I would say the same, but I WAS perfectly clear. I won’t be spoon feeding anyone here. If you look for the examples you will find them.

If you look for examples to the opposite, you will find that, too. The latter does not disqualify nor diminish the prior.
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 3, 2021, tommy wrote:
An actor once played me and so I must be a character.

Tommy, you need no confirmation to your being a character. Smile
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 2, 2021, Ray Pierce wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 2, 2021, Tom Cutts wrote:
Sadly the reality is 99% of those calling themselves “magicians” don’t have what it takes to be that actor. Instead they follow the easy advice of “be a version of yourself” which even that they dilute down to, “I’m just me, a guy who does some tricks.“
Unfortunately, such wonderful aspirations have little place in the reality of the situation.


I agree with your 99% qualifier but as someone who got my Equity card at 13 and have acted professionally my entire life in everything from Sondheim to Mamet, I have the technical ability and requisite skill to play a “character” on stage. I simply choose not to most of the time. Yes, I have a Charlie Chaplin segment, a Mission: Impossible routine and a Pirate scene among others where I am specifically lifting the 4th wall to create a certain feel for those scenes in a full evening show as it expands the breadth of their experience. On the other hand, I never start a show with those but as myself as I want the audiences to connect with me, not a character. Yes, even when I’m “myself” as a personality and not a character on stage, there is a huge amount of acting involved in creating the illusion of spontaneity in something I have done for 40 years and other elements which require acting for certain misdirective elements. If you look at the most popular stars in the industry, they have achieved that status largely due to their personality and not the characters they might or might not have played. Yes, this is a choice. I know many “character acts” which are very successful. My choices are based on experience and a life long study of the entertainment industry as a whole… not my need to “dilute” anything.

Ray, that is a lot of words to say “I’m not just some guy doing tricks.”
Smile
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 3, 2021, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 2, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm just using your Greg Brady exact words standard is all and applying it to you the way you do to everyone else.

Wow, dude, you are flat out losing it.

1. It’s YOUR Greg Brady statement. You made a clear definitive blanket statement, which now admit was inaccurate, by using the definitive “can’t”. But to try and wiggle out of being flat out wrong you are attempting to blame others, distort what you said, distort what others said, and dilute your incorrect blanket statement.

2. I have not applied any statement here in this thread to “everyone else”. I have merely pointed out one can, and some do, credit the creators of the things they perform. The examples are trickling in from others, so you are in spin mode to lessen the sting of being wrong when you said, “It can’t be done.”

3. Your absolutely absurd claim that if one credits one part, one must credit all parts shows how tenuous your position was... before it collapsed.
Spin away Danny.

Just like your claim about how musicians credit.

And no spin. I have an ability to correct an incorrect statement. Which I have several times in this thread.

Nothing collapsed. You decide to nit pick, which is cool. I backed it up and said blanket statements shouldn't be used.

I guess we use dissent definitions of spinning. Admitting it was not correct, and correcting it does not fit my definition. Your mileage may vary.

And while it was my statement it is your standard. See the difference
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Pop Haydn
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"The egos shine like lightbulbs, so bright you cannot see them,
Blind each other blinder than a sandbox.
All the fury of an argument, holding back their yawns,
A challenge shakes the chandeliers, the sophist swords are drawn.
To the loser go the hang-ups, to the victor go the hangers on..."

~Phil Ochs
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
And while it was my statement it is your standard. See the difference


See, that’s once again more Danny being wrong. It’s NOT my standard. YOU made an exacting definitive INCORRECT statement and now you are busy trying to divert your own guilt from that by trying to frame someone else for something they didn’t do. There was NOTHING vague or grey or in any way imprecise about what you said. Your attempts to prove your falsehood with links show the exactingness of your then conviction to your what you said. The EXACTINGNESS is all YOU, but now you can’t own it.

But you’ll keep trying to argue and deflect blame to wiggle out this. Spin away. Spin away.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
"The egos shine like lightbulbs, so bright you cannot see them,
Blind each other blinder than a sandbox.
All the fury of an argument, holding back their yawns,
A challenge shakes the chandeliers, the sophist swords are drawn.
To the loser go the hang-ups, to the victor go the hangers on..."

~Phil Ochs


Yea this.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
And while it was my statement it is your standard. See the difference


See, that’s once again more Danny being wrong. It’s NOT my standard. YOU made an exacting definitive INCORRECT statement and now you are busy trying to divert your own guilt from that by trying to frame someone else for something they didn’t do. There was NOTHING vague or grey or in any way imprecise about what you said. Your attempts to prove your falsehood with links show the exactingness of your then conviction to your what you said. The EXACTINGNESS is all YOU, but now you can’t own it.

But you’ll keep trying to argue and deflect blame to wiggle out this. Spin away. Spin away.

How did one spin when he admitted he misspoke exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
And while it was my statement it is your standard. See the difference


See, that’s once again more Danny being wrong. It’s NOT my standard. YOU made an exacting definitive INCORRECT statement and now you are busy trying to divert your own guilt from that by trying to frame someone else for something they didn’t do. There was NOTHING vague or grey or in any way imprecise about what you said. Your attempts to prove your falsehood with links show the exactingness of your then conviction to your what you said. The EXACTINGNESS is all YOU, but now you can’t own it.

But you’ll keep trying to argue and deflect blame to wiggle out this. Spin away. Spin away.

How did one spin when he admitted he misspoke exactly?

By deflecting. You see, a real admission would be “I screwed up and shouldn’t have made a definitive statement.”... and then shut up. But in your world you have to salve that wound so you get all riled up about some “exact words” delusion you had and you keep spinning that and spinning that in the hopes it gets traction.

It is the classic ploy of “Yeah I lied but...”. Not that you “lied”, that is just the most crystal clear use of it.
Dannydoyle
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Whatever. Not much deflection happening. If you choose to see things as such Pop is dead on right.

What a shame. I think the typed word removes a lot of context.

But if armature psychology makes you happy have at it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Searching for something of value in thee recent post related to the them of this thread ...

if lying and the detection of lies and the projection of what is a lie is critical to communication - and magic,
how is exposure in any form a problem when those in the audience may be more adept at lying than the performer?

Many/most each day wallow in multiple persona at work, school, home and on the Internet.
They lie to their boss, accountant, spouse and neighbors - and therefor assume that everyone else must be lying too.

Every statement that starts off positioning oneself by putting someone else down is based on a lie. Bullying? Hardly based on truth.
They are exposed to marketing lies, robo-call lies, and superstition driven drivel in the form of 'news', conspiracy theory, etc.
Heuristic fallacy is bucket list of "I ain't tried that yet," with little concern over rational congruency or certitude.

So, how does a typical audience member view what a mystic arts performer does? Most probably as a lie - every word, story and action.
Thus, when a 'secret' is revealed why should they consider that to be true? Some of their entertainment comes from having their own lying practices validated.

Of course, none of these thoughts should be taken to actually represent what I think or feel about lying or the importance of integrity in life.
I am just expressing mused thoughts prompted by this thread - for entertainment.

Danny and Tom have exposed themselves to some degree, but I would never pretend that their words here actually represent what they feel about exposure in performance magic.
Therein lies a problem. (pun) I once thought I might enjoy seeing Danny perform and hoped Tom might share any magic effect he has ever performed. Sigh!

Now I think I will just teach the kid next door a trick or two and the value of secrets and honesty in performing.
and talking to trees. They never lie to me.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
tommy
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Exposure is a catastrophe, which transforms a magic effect into a drama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_s......text.svg

Note that unlike drama magic provides no explanation after the climax.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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