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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Card tricks on Blackjack ?! (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mr. Bones
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Dude, with 14 posts you're probably not the guy to try and tell people who've been posting here for a decade what to say, and how to say it.
Folks can participate however they choose to here, but there is a concept called "on-topic" which is far more appropriate than "off-topic".

We're all just guests here, and regardless of what anybody "thinks" the forum might be for, or might have turned into, our host very clearly describes this forums sole purpose as follows:

Discussion of the history, theory and ideas surrounding the mysterious world of the unscrupulous gambler. Topics may include card cheating, card counters, advantage players, etc. Strategies, theories and schemes for winning at Poker, BlackJack, Slots, Roulette, Craps and other casino games.

Nowhere in that description does it include the words "magic tricks".
Folks are free to do their own math on the description of the forums intended purpose, along with the complete absence of any reference to magic tricks in that very detailed description.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
The Dowser
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Since blackjack is listed as one of the topics, it is certainly appropriate for someone looking to base effects on blackjack to seek information here. The constant ":What are you doing here? We are an exclusive group, and magicians need not apply because we are the real deal." is getting really old and is why participation in this part of the forum has dropped significantly over time.
Mr. Bones
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LOL ... the reason participation has dropped is because of some of the bizarre personalities that have posted in the past, and continue to post currently.
All the original guys got hounded out of the forum, leaving only a few regulars and some random newbies ... oh - and magicians.
Asking that magic tricks be discussed elsewhere has nothing to do with it.

Maybe this forum could be merged with the Vent'n'Dummy forum? ... that would fix it eh?, and get that participation that you're so worried about back up to snuff!

What really happened to this place was (and is) that it is continually pulled off-topic by people who really couldn't give a crap about the original intent of the Gambling Spot.
The list of guys who've left is a long one, occupied by lots of knowledgable non-magicians who actually did know what they were talking about, but got sick and tired of being told that they didn't know what they were talking about.

If you're going to take a stand Dowser, at least take an honest stand.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
ElDan88
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Didn't know what a big avalanche I would kick down with my little request.

To bother or offend someone or to violate the topic of this section of the forum wasn't my intention.
The Dowser
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I'm not the one "taking a stand"... and your not at fault ElDan88. Don't let any blow hard "hound you out of the forum".
Dannydoyle
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I would recommend learning hand mucking. If the dealer is doing double or single deck pitch games you get to handle the cards. Hand mucking is a thing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Fove52
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Yeah, mucking is a useful slight in terms of blackjack, I recommend you try to learn mucks from Tony Giorgio's DVD: The Ultimate Work.
tommy
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Steve Forte does an impressive 21 demonstration:

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/one-step-ahead-7710

But do not ask me how he does it. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ElDan88
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Thanks for the input.
The Dowser
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Max Maven has a neat little blackjack routine that uses the gilbreath principle and a very small setup... less than six cards I think. He put it in either Genii or Magic magazine sometime in the mid 90's.

After a spectator shuffle, you call the hands and seem to deal out a blackjack at will. I don't remember if it is for one or more rounds but I think it was for two rounds.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On May 6, 2020, foolsnobody wrote:

By the way, this forum is not intended for magicians that do "gambling acts" or "gambling themed acts."


Perhaps the forum is evolving over time and perhaps we should be a little less strict in our definition of the site intent.

I joined the forum back in 2004. Having been around professional gambling, both casino and high stakes private games for over 50 years, my first impression after reading some posts was, "Are these guys kidding?"

At that time the personality known as DOC (who evidently started this forum and/or claimed it was his forum), was pontificating to a myriad of salivating amateurs because he advertised himself as being a "real cheat." Because of this self-appointed title, he was venerated by many on this BB because if one is a "real cheat," he must know the "real work" and therefore must be a higher authority on the subject of cheating.

In other words: "WOW...gee whiz mom. I'm learning from a real cheat" or some such supposedly elevated concept...a concept I'm sure most moms would not appreciate.

DOC wrote and sounded like a street guy and probably did some street hustling in his time. His demos of how to do the "real work" classic moves were skillfully performed and kept the forum going.

However, the forum discusses and demonstrates things on a superficial level...newspaper reports, gambling stories, the latest way of perfuming classic moves etc., and doesn't go very deeply into the subject of hustling, scamming and such because the participants can't. They are not hustlers or scammers. From time to time I write a post to go a little deeper into the subject matter and the response to such a post is usually nothing-zero-zilch.

So this site, regardless of the definition, is primarily for magicians or more accurately hobbyists and as such the discussion of various gambling demos and effects are valid if classic moves are incorporated into the routine, but not pure magician moves or gimmicks.

Forte does these demos and while skillful and impressive, some are gambling themed more than practical usable hustling gambling methodology although most viewers don't understand why oftentimes what he does is not "real" or usable under fire. He is simply performing a demo presentation, one can say a magician presentation if you will, pure and simple.

Of course we can debate if we must adhere to a rigid definition of the site intent or adhere to a slightly more liberal interpretation. I would go for a slightly more liberal interpretation of the site's intent but,regardless...the world will still keep spinning and so will I.
tommy
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Once upon a time in England, there were no casinos and we used to play a great 21 game called Shoot.

https://www.pagat.com/banking/pontoon.html#shoot_pontoon
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Dowser
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You could demonstrate the reading of the lay stack, carrying the slug, and re-dealing of the stack... if you truly have the interest of your audience and you think they will appreciate it.

The problem with blackjack demo's is that blackjack is inherently boring to watch unless you have a stake in the hand... and the more authentic your demonstration is, the less spectacular it will look. Nevertheless, true control over all seemingly random outcomes can always be impressive... and mysterious if the play seemed fair and the method is invisible.

As for the lay stack: demonstrating it need not include "explaining it" and the stack itself need not be authentic in that it need not be impromptu. You can use a predetermined outcome (ensuring an impressive result) by using a mem-deck, or more authentically- a mem-slug.

The Dowser
5ggg
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Really good write up Cag, agree with a lot of that. I might not respond to your posts, but I read everyone and if other don't realize the worth (and weight) of your words, sucks for them. There is some gold buried in the posts from years ago



this part was particular good Smile

"At that time the personality known as DOC (who evidently started this forum and/or claimed it was his forum), was pontificating to a myriad of salivating amateurs because he advertised himself as being a "real cheat." Because of this self-appointed title, he was venerated by many on this BB because if one is a "real cheat," he must know the "real work" and therefore must be a higher authority on the subject of cheating."
Mr. Bones
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FFS, you donks don't know anything about DOC or what he "can" or "can't" do ... or what he might have, or might not have done.

Dowser pointed out how many guys have left the Gambling Spot - those posters left because of Cag's endless uninformed pontificating designed to confront everybody and anybody who might challenge him as the "most knowledgable guy on the forum who knows the real work but who won't share it because he doesn't share with losers and "demonstrators"".

5ggg and his 26 posts, dissing DOC ... are you fricking kidding me?!
Some kid who knows nothing sucking up to Cag by dissing DOC? ... THAT'S what's wrong with the forum ... it has nothing to do with wanting to remain on-topic.

This place has turned into a sycophantic dump. The list of folks who recognized that has been growing over the past number of years ... and it's definitely getting longer.
Mr. Bones
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tommy
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Flattery is a very seductive form of manipulation.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
5ggg
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Quote:
On May 10, 2020, Mr. Bones wrote:
FFS, you donks don't know anything about DOC or what he "can" or "can't" do ... or what he might have, or might not have done.

Dowser pointed out how many guys have left the Gambling Spot - those posters left because of Cag's endless uninformed pontificating designed to confront everybody and anybody who might challenge him as the "most knowledgable guy on the forum who knows the real work but who won't share it because he doesn't share with losers and "demonstrators"".

5ggg and his 26 posts, dissing DOC ... are you fricking kidding me?!
Some kid who knows nothing sucking up to Cag by dissing DOC? ... THAT'S what's wrong with the forum ... it has nothing to do with wanting to remain on-topic.

This place has turned into a sycophantic dump. The list of folks who recognized that has been growing over the past number of years ... and it's definitely getting longer.


I would agree, and not sure if you know my old unsername but I have been around for years and years and years. As much as it might seem, I am not new around here Smile. I don't view it as sucking up to cag, I am just aware of who he is and I enjoy his posts.
5ggg
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Quote:
On May 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
Flattery is a very seductive form of manipulation.



Yep, you are a really good person as well Smile
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On May 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
Flattery is a very seductive form of manipulation.


Yes, flattery is very seductive especially when laid upon me by Bones in his perceptive pontification:

Quote:
Dowser pointed out how many guys have left the Gambling Spot - those posters left because of Cag's endless uninformed pontificating designed to confront everybody and anybody who might challenge him as the "most knowledgeable guy on the forum who knows the real work but who won't share it because he doesn't share with losers and "demonstrators".


Flattery is one thing, but when given by someone as informed and knowledgeable as Bones (hey, this guy has read Erdnase and a few other books), it takes flattery to a whole new level, especially when that flattery is informed, rational and unemotional as it is with Bones.

Thanks Bones. Keep ‘em coming. Smile
5ggg
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I don't think people left because of you, it seemed like a slow thing, and having GF I think took some people away from the Café
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