Max Maven has a neat little blackjack routine that uses the gilbreath principle and a very small setup... less than six cards I think. He put it in either Genii or Magic magazine sometime in the mid 90's.

After a spectator shuffle, you call the hands and seem to deal out a blackjack at will. I don't remember if it is for one or more rounds but I think it was for two rounds.

Perhaps the forum is evolving over time and perhaps we should be a little less strict in our definition of the site intent.

I joined the forum back in 2004. Having been around professional gambling, both casino and high stakes private games for over 50 years, my first impression after reading some posts was, "Are these guys kidding?"

At that time the personality known as DOC (who evidently started this forum and/or claimed it was his forum), was pontificating to a myriad of salivating amateurs because he advertised himself as being a "real cheat." Because of this self-appointed title, he was venerated by many on this BB because if one is a "real cheat," he must know the "real work" and therefore must be a higher authority on the subject of cheating.

In other words: "WOW...gee whiz mom. I'm learning from a real cheat" or some such supposedly elevated concept...a concept I'm sure most moms would not appreciate.

DOC wrote and sounded like a street guy and probably did some street hustling in his time. His demos of how to do the "real work" classic moves were skillfully performed and kept the forum going.

However, the forum discusses and demonstrates things on a superficial level...newspaper reports, gambling stories, the latest way of perfuming classic moves etc., and doesn't go very deeply into the subject of hustling, scamming and such because the participants can't. They are not hustlers or scammers. From time to time I write a post to go a little deeper into the subject matter and the response to such a post is usually nothing-zero-zilch.

So this site, regardless of the definition, is primarily for magicians or more accurately hobbyists and as such the discussion of various gambling demos and effects are valid if classic moves are incorporated into the routine, but not pure magician moves or gimmicks.

Forte does these demos and while skillful and impressive, some are gambling themed more than practical usable hustling gambling methodology although most viewers don't understand why oftentimes what he does is not "real" or usable under fire. He is simply performing a demo presentation, one can say a magician presentation if you will, pure and simple.

Of course we can debate if we must adhere to a rigid definition of the site intent or adhere to a slightly more liberal interpretation. I would go for a slightly more liberal interpretation of the site's intent but,regardless...the world will still keep spinning and so will I.

Once upon a time in England, there were no casinos and we used to play a great 21 game called Shoot.

https://www.pagat.com/banking/pontoon.html#shoot_pontoon

You could demonstrate the reading of the lay stack, carrying the slug, and re-dealing of the stack... if you truly have the interest of your audience and you think they will appreciate it.

The problem with blackjack demo's is that blackjack is inherently boring to watch unless you have a stake in the hand... and the more authentic your demonstration is, the less spectacular it will look. Nevertheless, true control over all seemingly random outcomes can always be impressive... and mysterious if the play seemed fair and the method is invisible.

As for the lay stack: demonstrating it need not include "explaining it" and the stack itself need not be authentic in that it need not be impromptu. You can use a predetermined outcome (ensuring an impressive result) by using a mem-deck, or more authentically- a mem-slug.

The Dowser

Really good write up Cag, agree with a lot of that. I might not respond to your posts, but I read everyone and if other don't realize the worth (and weight) of your words, sucks for them. There is some gold buried in the posts from years ago



this part was particular good

"At that time the personality known as DOC (who evidently started this forum and/or claimed it was his forum), was pontificating to a myriad of salivating amateurs because he advertised himself as being a "real cheat." Because of this self-appointed title, he was venerated by many on this BB because if one is a "real cheat," he must know the "real work" and therefore must be a higher authority on the subject of cheating."

FFS, you donks don't know anything about DOC or what he "can" or "can't" do ... or what he might have, or might not have done.

Dowser pointed out how many guys have left the Gambling Spot - those posters left because of Cag's endless uninformed pontificating designed to confront everybody and anybody who might challenge him as the "most knowledgable guy on the forum who knows the real work but who won't share it because he doesn't share with losers and "demonstrators"".

5ggg and his 26 posts, dissing DOC ... are you fricking kidding me?!
Some kid who knows nothing sucking up to Cag by dissing DOC? ... THAT'S what's wrong with the forum ... it has nothing to do with wanting to remain on-topic.

This place has turned into a sycophantic dump. The list of folks who recognized that has been growing over the past number of years ... and it's definitely getting longer.

Flattery is a very seductive form of manipulation.

I would agree, and not sure if you know my old unsername but I have been around for years and years and years. As much as it might seem, I am not new around here . I don't view it as sucking up to cag, I am just aware of who he is and I enjoy his posts.

Yep, you are a really good person as well

Yes, flattery is very seductive especially when laid upon me by Bones in his perceptive pontification:



Flattery is one thing, but when given by someone as informed and knowledgeable as Bones (hey, this guy has read Erdnase and a few other books), it takes flattery to a whole new level, especially when that flattery is informed, rational and unemotional as it is with Bones.

Thanks Bones. Keep ‘em coming.

I don't think people left because of you, it seemed like a slow thing, and having GF I think took some people away from the Café

Part-time amateurs are no match for full-time professionals. Most hustling is about full-timers luring part-timers to gamble with them. This foam of manipulation often comes cloaked in flattery. The full-time professional poker player will play in the casino, always on the lookout for businessmen at the table who he can lure to a private joint like ours. If one spends time in a billiard hall, where many of the top professional poker players cut their teeth, you will learn how it works, if have any grift sense at all. It seems to me, this side of hustling is as patter is to a magic experiment; it is a play to emotions - not intelligence - as all good confidence men know. So why don't you boys be nice?

Good post above tommy, spot on as to how grift sense works...but...far as being nice, gee whiz, I thought I was being nice.

Oh well, back to the pool hall for retraning.

Las Vegas is the world heavyweight champion of sycophants. One only needs to look at how they try to lure whales, with free flights on Gulfstream jets, lavish hotel suites and even partial forgiveness of their losses, to see that. Casinos are very inventive in schemes to allure and seduce sportsmen for profit.

Interesting to me is that you mentioned things like user interface, easy to play, lots of games. NONE of which should be a primary consideration in playing blackjack seriously to win.

The rules! That is all that matters! Can you double after a split? How many times can you split? Can you surrender? Early or late surrender? What variance of bets are allowed minimum to maximum?

I would take a crappy user experience to get the rules I want.

And don’t try out too many strategies. The math hasn’t changed much since Thorp.

Although it is interesting how your post comes off as an advertisement.

Blackjack is about putting in the time. If most if not all of what I said is new to you just mail a check. It is quicker.

As for magic effects blackjack is kind of boring.