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tommy
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Palantir has two segments: government, specifically U.S. and non-U.S. government agencies, and commercial customers. But Palantir won’t do business with just anyone. “We generally do not enter into business with customers or governments whose positions or actions we consider inconsistent with our mission to support Western liberal democracy and its strategic allies,” the company said in Tuesday’s filing. For example, Palantir said it does not work with the Chinese Communist Party and does not host its service in China.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/25/palantir......lic.html

Pretty Gehlenesque of them.
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They will. Just wait. Through the commercial side. "We generally..." not "We don't..."
tommy
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Lest we forget punch-card technology.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk......-weekend
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Five Real Conspiracies You Need to Know About:

https://patternsofmeaning.com/2020/10/01......w-about/
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On Oct 2, 2020, landmark wrote:
Five Real Conspiracies You Need to Know About:

https://patternsofmeaning.com/2020/10/01......w-about/


This is again really stretching the use of the word conspiracy. The second one, "Conspiracy by transnational corporations to turn billions of people into addicts" sounds ominous, but only mentions two things:

  • How cereal manufacturers get kids "addicted" to sugar. All food manufacturing is predicated on the idea that you sell your product. Is the fact that kids like sugar and manufacturers want to take advantage of that a conspiracy? How about McDonalds? They work to make sure there is the right balance of sugar and salt in their food so that you'll buy more than you actually need (or want). Are they also involved in the great food conspiracy, along with every other fast food restaurant and snack food manufacturer? Or is each company trying its best to get its product better positioned?
  • How social media companies get us to spend more time on their platforms by using like and "thumbs up" buttons, and therefore get us "addicted". The upshot seems to be that anytime psychological principles are used to better position a product or service, it immediately becomes classified as a conspiracy, particularly if other companies copy a successful model. ALL sales use some form of psychological approach to make it more likely you'll buy their product or service. Read Robert Cialdini's book on influence for a detailed look at what these approaches are. Does this make every product being sold in America part of the great conspiracy because they are, at least in part, appealing to our psychological weaknesses?


The title "Conspiracy by transnational corporations to turn billions of people into addicts" is not only sensationalized, it is misleading. This entire topic seems to be more an indictment of the free market. So what's the fix? Massive crackdowns by the government? If so, then you'd have even more people talking about the "Conspiracy by transnational governments to turn billions of people into [insert favorite descriptor]".

If you want to talk about issues related to truth in advertising, or what is a reasonable approach to regulate advertising, then OK, we can have that discussion. But to assert that every successful sales model (whether under-regulated or not) is a conspiracy is just fallacious. Each of the others are just as fallacious for different reasons.
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One of the most important aspects of the kinds of conspiracies we're discussing is the hidden nature of the motives of the conspirators; moreover, their camouflaged nature: they appear to be what they are not.

The "free" market is not free, and yet tons of blather are written to hide that fact.

The "like" button is not simply a way to express your opinion, but a dedicated way to track your movements and actions across the internet in ways that you never suspected or signed up for. Even if you are not on Facebook, you are now tracked by every site that contains a like button. Whether you thought you consented to that or not.

The issue of added sugar is not a "sales" issue but a poison issue and lying about it. See sugar and other additives added to cigarettes to make them deliberately more addictive--do you know what additives are added to cigarettes? Here are 599 of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ad......garettes

"Tobacco companies were forced to publicly release scientific studies and internal documents in 1998. They have also been forced to publicly admit their strategies. In November 2017, tobacco companies began a court-ordered advertisement campaign admitting the variety of ways they manipulated the public, including that they designed cigarettes to be more addictive and lied about it."

https://truthinitiative.org/research-res......ddictive

As for solutions I have no idea where you get the idea that the author is claiming "massive crackdowns." Talk about sensationalism. He quite clearly says in the final paragraph:

"The good news is that, since they’re real conspiracies, there is something we can do about them. We can vote in politicians that promise to peel back the neoliberal nightmare; advocate for curbs on predatory corporate activities; support the Global South in changing the terms of international trade; declare a Climate Emergency in our community to turn around carbon emissions; and become active in the movement to transform our global society to an Ecological Civilization—one that is based on life-affirming principles rather than accumulating wealth."
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Quote:
The "free" market is not free, and yet tons of blather are written to hide that fact.


This is a platitude that does nothing to further your point. A legitimate criticism of capitalism is that it has proven to be susceptible to price fixing monopolies, which antitrust law works to mitigate, although I will grant it is imperfect. Therefore, government at times has to intervene to ensure competition, particularly in large and important industries. I have no idea how this maps to global conspiracies. Perhaps you can clarify the linkage here.

Quote:
The "like" button is not simply a way to express your opinion, but a dedicated way to track your movements and actions across the internet in ways that you never suspected or signed up for. Even if you are not on Facebook, you are now tracked by every site that contains a like button. Whether you thought you consented to that or not.


Yes. This is a real issue related to data privacy, not conspiracies. The fact that other companies are using the FB model does not mean a conspiracy exists. It simply means that they are all invading our privacy to improve their individual bottom lines. Do we need protection from these companies? Perhaps. Is it a global conspiracy? The evidence doesn't support the assertion, but I'm open to changing my mind given new evidence. (And yes, of course, I'm aware companies share this data with each other. This, too, does not make it a conspiracy, because information is simply treated as any other goods or services commodity. Meaning that the issue really maps to data privacy, which has nothing to do with conspiracies.)

Quote:
The issue of added sugar is not a "sales" issue but a poison issue and lying about it. See sugar and other additives added to cigarettes to make them deliberately more addictive--do you know what additives are added to cigarettes? Here are 599 of them:


Of course companies that lie about their additives should be held accountable. The bigger problem here is that all 599 of these chemicals are FDA approved as food additives. But the article you cited was specifically talking about sugar, which is also a legal substance under the law. The fact that companies use this legal chemical does not mean a conspiracy exists. It simply means more than one company wants to make money off of the addictive qualities of sugar. Should we ban sugar? Should we then ban foods with too much fat? Where does it end? These are questions for another time, but my main point is there is no demonstration of a conspiracy. This is term intentionally injected into seemingly any discussion to artificially increase the fear quotient.

Quote:
As for solutions I have no idea where you get the idea that the author is claiming "massive crackdowns." Talk about sensationalism. He quite clearly says in the final paragraph:

"The good news is that, since they’re real conspiracies, there is something we can do about them. We can vote in politicians that promise to peel back the neoliberal nightmare; advocate for curbs on predatory corporate activities; support the Global South in changing the terms of international trade; declare a Climate Emergency in our community to turn around carbon emissions; and become active in the movement to transform our global society to an Ecological Civilization—one that is based on life-affirming principles rather than accumulating wealth."


I didn't claim the author was saying that. It was a rhetorical question about how to go about fixing the problem. It is humorous to note that all of the author's fixes relate to policies designed to mitigate what he sees as existing flaws. That is a good thing. If it was truly a conspiracy, wouldn't something be mentioned about catching the conspirators? He mentions nothing about that. Why? Because the things he cites aren't conspiracies. It is just a word he uses to psychologically manipulate his readers. Does that make him a conspirator?
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"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
tommy
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I thought the video was pretty flawed. What he calls a "commonly regarded explanation" isn't always "commonly regarded". He used Jeffrey Epstein as an example of a source of "conspiracy theories". This is a perfect example of why people would try to solve a mystery where what he calls the "commonly accepted explanation" is SO WEAK that reasonable people would say "I don't buy it". From the 1990s to this day, the FBI has covered up evidence in this powerful pedophilia ring. The FBI seized all of the Epstein evidence OVER ONE YEAR AGO and they have not made a single arrest of any of the powerful individuals alleged by multiple victims to be perpetrators in pedophilia crimes. Bill Clinton lied about how many times he was on the Lolita Express. He lied about whether he was on Pedophile Island. He has lied about his proclivities for being a sexual predator in the past. His history is that when he lies about evidence that might involve him, it is because he is REALLY INVOLVED. However, instead of there being an honest pursuit of justice, people are told things like: "We asked Bill and he said he knows nothing about it", so nothing to see here. Or, how about: "We have asked Prince Andrew if he wouldn't mind cooperating, and so far he hasn't. Oh well, maybe one day he will change his mind". If you can't see that obviously Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton were involved in a pedophilia ring, then you need your head examined! what about Leslie Wexner's involvement in this pedophilia ring? Are we going to continue pretending that he wasn't a key player in this? There hasn't been a single word on his highly suspect actions in this case because he is a powerful CEO... Well, former CEO now.

Don't blame people who are trying to figure out what really happened. Instead of calling them "crazy conspiracy theories", why don't you just call them "theories to be investigated", given many of these issues have not been investigated properly. BTW, in the case of Epstein, obviously someone other than the FBI needs to be doing the investigating, and someone needs to investigate the FBI to find out why they covered up evidence regarding this ring that could have saved hundreds of victims

Who is being naive now?

KJ
tommy
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How do we define a non-conspiracy theorist?

What is the difference between a non-conspiracy theorist and a Soviet citizen, who toes the part line, never questions his government, parrots’ whatever officials tell him and who, when being murdered by Stalin’s men, naively shouts, long live Stalin?
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On Oct 5, 2020, 1KJ wrote:
I thought the video was pretty flawed. What he calls a "commonly regarded explanation" isn't always "commonly regarded". He used Jeffrey Epstein as an example of a source of "conspiracy theories". This is a perfect example of why people would try to solve a mystery where what he calls the "commonly accepted explanation" is SO WEAK that reasonable people would say "I don't buy it". From the 1990s to this day, the FBI has covered up evidence in this powerful pedophilia ring. The FBI seized all of the Epstein evidence OVER ONE YEAR AGO and they have not made a single arrest of any of the powerful individuals alleged by multiple victims to be perpetrators in pedophilia crimes. Bill Clinton lied about how many times he was on the Lolita Express. He lied about whether he was on Pedophile Island. He has lied about his proclivities for being a sexual predator in the past. His history is that when he lies about evidence that might involve him, it is because he is REALLY INVOLVED. However, instead of there being an honest pursuit of justice, people are told things like: "We asked Bill and he said he knows nothing about it", so nothing to see here. Or, how about: "We have asked Prince Andrew if he wouldn't mind cooperating, and so far he hasn't. Oh well, maybe one day he will change his mind". If you can't see that obviously Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton were involved in a pedophilia ring, then you need your head examined! what about Leslie Wexner's involvement in this pedophilia ring? Are we going to continue pretending that he wasn't a key player in this? There hasn't been a single word on his highly suspect actions in this case because he is a powerful CEO... Well, former CEO now.

Don't blame people who are trying to figure out what really happened. Instead of calling them "crazy conspiracy theories", why don't you just call them "theories to be investigated", given many of these issues have not been investigated properly. BTW, in the case of Epstein, obviously someone other than the FBI needs to be doing the investigating, and someone needs to investigate the FBI to find out why they covered up evidence regarding this ring that could have saved hundreds of victims

Who is being naive now?

KJ


Here is the pricked encapsulated very well. When this with no experience in investigating start to believe they do and then just keep at it.

Any investigative body with their salt never discusses active elements of an ongoing investigation. Period.

The presumption of innocence is petty important. Being on that island alone is no crime. Being on it many times is no crime. You can not just assert without proof these guys were involved in a crime. At least not get a conviction in America that way.

I am no fan of president Clinton. I have my beliefs about what he was and want involved with. This is no substitute for the rule of law and proof being required to do something about it. Not just "knowing".

And you claim many issues have not been investigated "properly ". Please let us know your experience in FBI investigating techniques. Because you seem to be upset with maligned people who believe conspiracy theories, but don't mind ripping the FBI and calling them at the least incompetent and at worst complicit.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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FBI conspiracies are hard to prove because they seize all the evidence, like they did in Dallas and flush embarring things down the toilet.
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Quote:
On Oct 5, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 5, 2020, 1KJ wrote:
I thought the video was pretty flawed. What he calls a "commonly regarded explanation" isn't always "commonly regarded". He used Jeffrey Epstein as an example of a source of "conspiracy theories". This is a perfect example of why people would try to solve a mystery where what he calls the "commonly accepted explanation" is SO WEAK that reasonable people would say "I don't buy it". From the 1990s to this day, the FBI has covered up evidence in this powerful pedophilia ring. The FBI seized all of the Epstein evidence OVER ONE YEAR AGO and they have not made a single arrest of any of the powerful individuals alleged by multiple victims to be perpetrators in pedophilia crimes. Bill Clinton lied about how many times he was on the Lolita Express. He lied about whether he was on Pedophile Island. He has lied about his proclivities for being a sexual predator in the past. His history is that when he lies about evidence that might involve him, it is because he is REALLY INVOLVED. However, instead of there being an honest pursuit of justice, people are told things like: "We asked Bill and he said he knows nothing about it", so nothing to see here. Or, how about: "We have asked Prince Andrew if he wouldn't mind cooperating, and so far he hasn't. Oh well, maybe one day he will change his mind". If you can't see that obviously Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton were involved in a pedophilia ring, then you need your head examined! what about Leslie Wexner's involvement in this pedophilia ring? Are we going to continue pretending that he wasn't a key player in this? There hasn't been a single word on his highly suspect actions in this case because he is a powerful CEO... Well, former CEO now.

Don't blame people who are trying to figure out what really happened. Instead of calling them "crazy conspiracy theories", why don't you just call them "theories to be investigated", given many of these issues have not been investigated properly. BTW, in the case of Epstein, obviously someone other than the FBI needs to be doing the investigating, and someone needs to investigate the FBI to find out why they covered up evidence regarding this ring that could have saved hundreds of victims

Who is being naive now?

KJ


Here is the pricked encapsulated very well. When this with no experience in investigating start to believe they do and then just keep at it.

Any investigative body with their salt never discusses active elements of an ongoing investigation. Period.

The presumption of innocence is petty important. Being on that island alone is no crime. Being on it many times is no crime. You can not just assert without proof these guys were involved in a crime. At least not get a conviction in America that way.

I am no fan of president Clinton. I have my beliefs about what he was and want involved with. This is no substitute for the rule of law and proof being required to do something about it. Not just "knowing".

And you claim many issues have not been investigated "properly ". Please let us know your experience in FBI investigating techniques. Because you seem to be upset with maligned people who believe conspiracy theories, but don't mind ripping the FBI and calling them at the least incompetent and at worst complicit.


Problem, not pricked.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Quote:
On Oct 5, 2020, 1KJ wrote:
I thought the video was pretty flawed. What he calls a "commonly regarded explanation" isn't always "commonly regarded". He used Jeffrey Epstein as an example of a source of "conspiracy theories". This is a perfect example of why people would try to solve a mystery where what he calls the "commonly accepted explanation" is SO WEAK that reasonable people would say "I don't buy it". From the 1990s to this day, the FBI has covered up evidence in this powerful pedophilia ring. The FBI seized all of the Epstein evidence OVER ONE YEAR AGO and they have not made a single arrest of any of the powerful individuals alleged by multiple victims to be perpetrators in pedophilia crimes. Bill Clinton lied about how many times he was on the Lolita Express. He lied about whether he was on Pedophile Island. He has lied about his proclivities for being a sexual predator in the past. His history is that when he lies about evidence that might involve him, it is because he is REALLY INVOLVED. However, instead of there being an honest pursuit of justice, people are told things like: "We asked Bill and he said he knows nothing about it", so nothing to see here. Or, how about: "We have asked Prince Andrew if he wouldn't mind cooperating, and so far he hasn't. Oh well, maybe one day he will change his mind". If you can't see that obviously Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton were involved in a pedophilia ring, then you need your head examined! what about Leslie Wexner's involvement in this pedophilia ring? Are we going to continue pretending that he wasn't a key player in this? There hasn't been a single word on his highly suspect actions in this case because he is a powerful CEO... Well, former CEO now.

Don't blame people who are trying to figure out what really happened. Instead of calling them "crazy conspiracy theories", why don't you just call them "theories to be investigated", given many of these issues have not been investigated properly. BTW, in the case of Epstein, obviously someone other than the FBI needs to be doing the investigating, and someone needs to investigate the FBI to find out why they covered up evidence regarding this ring that could have saved hundreds of victims

Who is being naive now?

KJ


You seem to be conflating suspicion with guilt. You provide a string of evidence free assertions and you fill in the blanks with what you believe happened. That is never a means at arriving at the truth. It’s just a fun pastime for people to engage in wild speculation.

And, as mentioned in the video, engaging in conspiracy theories is a way to meet our psychological need to have someone to blame, or some group to blame, for all the bad things that happen that we don’t understand.
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tommy
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If You Are Not A Conspiracy Theorist Then You are an Idiot

a) A conspiracy theory is a theory that explains some event or events as due in
part to a conspiracy, that is, to a secret plan to influence events by partly
secret means.

b) Every historically and politically literate person employs the strategy of
sometimes believing (and sometimes being prepared to believe) conspiracy
theories.

c) Every historically and politically literate person is a conspiracy theorist.

d) The only way not to be a conspiracy theorist is to be historically and
politically illiterate that is to be, in the Greek sense of the word, an idiot.

f) Therefore if you are not a conspiracy theorist then you are an idiot.

The lecture will be followed by a wine reception.


Charles Pigden, MA (1983)(Cambridge) PhD (1985)(La Trobe), is Director of Philosophy Politics and Economics (PHPE or PPE) at University of Otago. He has edited Russell on Ethics (1999) (winner of the Bertrand Russell Society Book Award for 2000), contributed the chapter on ethics to the Cambridge Companion to Bertrand Russell and written the entry on Russell’s Moral Philosophy for the Stanford Online Encyclopedia of Philosophy.


http://www.crassh.cam.ac.uk/events/25140
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Francois Lagrange
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Conspiracy theory? A collective chewing gum of which everyone is healthier to stay away from.
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tommy
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The 9/11 Commission Report is a conspiracy theory. A collective chewing gum of which everyone is healthier to stay away from.

The only people not impaled on the horns of this dilemma are idiots in the Greek sense of the word.
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Francois Lagrange
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Well, pal, enjoy being impaled and keep chewing. I hope your teeth won’t decay.

Redefining the meaning of “Conspiracy Theory” to ad hominem attack people, strikes me as dishonest.

Anyway, I might be an idiot (falsifiable statement), but in my work, I have enough scientific hypothesises to work on.
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tommy
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It is not an ad hominem attack: it is an, if the cap fits wear it attack.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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In criminal law, a conspiracy is defined as an agreement between two or more people to commit an unlawful act. The 9/11 Commission theorised that at least 19 people agreed to commit the unlawful act that took place on 9/11. Therefore, then the 9/11 Commissions Report is a conspiracy theory. The 9/11 Commission did not theorise that each of the 19 alleged hijackers was a lone nut. If anybody is dishonestly redefining what a conspiracy theory is, it is you, lone-nut theorists, to get off the horns of this dilemma. Anybody that thinks the 9/11 attacks were not the result of a conspiracy is an idiot and not only in the Greek sense.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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