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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts 
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If that is what you think is a reasonable argument I would not be surprised.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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@tommy, it's just a different flavor of bait. It's still gaslighting.
Paranioa is not the same as delusions or pareidolia but they do work well together.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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Gaslighting, they say, is a form of emotional abuse that's seen in abusive relationships. It's the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity. I am not familiar with the term but it rings a bell and seems to fit the bill. When I was a kid, we still had gas lights and I recall an old film along those lines, perhaps of that name.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2600 Posts
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Pointing out the flaws in an argument is not gaslighting.
Appeals to gaslighting are just a convenient way to dismiss all criticism. Whatever helps you cope, man.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
Come visit Magic Book Report.com! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20873 Posts
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Yes then the inevitable attacking from those who suffer so badly. Science be darned, THEY themselves have the truth and you just must be an idiot not to see it.
Generally it is sad. But then it is shooting and turns into the trolling so often in display here. Great
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts
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Quote:
Pointing out the flaws in an argument is not gaslighting. I've seen awfully little evidence-based argument here. It's mainly been imputing motive, always dangerous when you don't know the individuals involved. Let's stick to debating evidence and facts.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2600 Posts
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I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you suggesting that it's wrong to point out the flaws in reasoning when someone says things like:
Quote:
-If You Are Not A Conspiracy Theorist Then You are an Idiot Or am I misunderstanding what you meant? In any event, your phrase, "I've seen awfully little evidence-based argument here" should be the motto for most of this forum! I appreciate your point of view, even when we disagree, and am glad you're participating in this thread. Cheers.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
Come visit Magic Book Report.com! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2020, Steven Keyl wrote: It seems to me you have not pointed out any flaws in the argument in question. You have merely asserted that the argument in question contains the sort of flaws you describe.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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Well, I guess there are formal definitions of what a reasonable argument is but I will say that a reasonable argument at least gives some explanation, some reason, for why one believes something to be true. An assertion I will say is merely a statement of what one believes, which lacks the why of it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Quote: Enough evidence to see a pattern? A familiar pattern, perhaps? On Oct 26, 2020, landmark wrote: 
If you like your conspiracy theories served with a steaming side of denial: https://www.upress.umn.edu/test-division......d-scores Same site, much more spooky https://uminnpressblog.com/2020/05/20/fa......in-life/ <<-- trigger warnings
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Quote: The shadow of our problem seems to grown with each "they" and "them" we post. On Oct 23, 2020, 1KJ wrote: 
However, given two equally workable and valid theories we can choose the simpler. So... the teapot did it. Whether or not the teapot itself or just some faction of its followers want you to imagine otherwise ... thanks to Occam we can enjoy telling stories. And tea. 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts
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We can follow Occam--or a more complex decision procedure....
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2600 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2020, tommy wrote: Agreed. Reasons alone, however, aren't sufficient for a reasonable argument. They need to be "good" reasons--meaning valid, logically sound, etc. The problem is we all think our reasons are compelling, otherwise we wouldn't hold the belief. In situations where opinions are diametrically opposed, then at least one party's (if not both) conclusions are erroneous. How then do we come up with a mechanism for understanding reality? What is the epistemological basis of our search for truth? Not everyone's answers to these questions are going to provide equally reliable results.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
Come visit Magic Book Report.com! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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If you want to see criminal conspiracy theories proven, then take a trip to the law courts. They are open to the public because justice not only has to be done but seen to be done. I used to work for the court and I have seen many conspiracy theories/cases proven. Moreover, I have been convicted of conspiracy myself.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts
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Quote:
How then do we come up with a mechanism for understanding reality? What is the epistemological basis of our search for truth? The elephant and the six blind men story long appealed to me. Or at least kept me comforted. Until Derek Del Gaudio asked, "Yes, but what about the elephant? How does s/he feel about being defined by others?"
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20873 Posts
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See this is the problem isn't it? In a factual zoological sense the elephants feelings are simply not relevant.
Most conspiracy theories are about someone feeling something deeply. But it is not relevant relevant. The only relevant part is the facts.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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Yes! However, even policemen have feelings, hunches and suspicions. which can lead them to uncovering firm evidence.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Tim Snyder Regular user Chicago, IL 111 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2020, Steven Keyl wrote: 
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16357 Posts
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One can prove a story is false when the story would violate the laws of physics if true. To believe such a story one would have to believe in magic. Such stories are what we might find in magic patter where the magician makes some incredible assertion of some sort or another, or what we find in the 9/11 Commission report for example.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Posted: Oct 26, 2020 07:53 pm 
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