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tommy
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What positition do you think I am fighting?

Why do you think what I said is a strawman?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Just for completeness regarding the House Select Committee investigating the Kennedy Assassination.

While it did find, as Danny said, that various postulated groups were not involved, it was quite specific that there was a conspiracy. [I bolded some portions in the following official summary]

"B. Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.

C. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy.

The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.

D. The Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfillment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. The conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive."

The summary then goes on to say the Secret Service, The FBI, The DOJ, The CIA and the Warren Report all inadequately investigated the possibility of a conspiracy.

The official summary and links to the full report can be found here:
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/se......#kennedy
tommy
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JFK was probably assassinated by the Gehlen Organization.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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Probability is the key word isn't it?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Steven Keyl
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Jack, this phrase is mentioned several times in the quotes above "the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved". This only suggests the possibility, not the probability, that others may have been involved.

This is not evidence, it is saying involvement of others cannot be ruled out. That does NOT automatically mean that involvement of others is ruled in. Evidence would be required for that.

Also, section B indicates there is competing data between the acoustic evidence and "other scientific evidence." This does not mean there were two gunmen, it only indicates there is a conflict among different data sets that would need to be resolved.

At the end of the day, alleging that a conspiracy DID happen requires evidence that no one seems to be able to produce.
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tommy
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Probability is a key concept to understand. Between the extreams of certainty and impossibilty, which are essentially two wonderful pieces of nonsense, there are in reality variouse probabilities of one thing or another being true.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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R.S.
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Well, somebody conspired to kill Kennedy, whether it was Oswald acting alone or some nefarious cabal. So in that sense, you can always say it was a "conspiracy."

But, to extrapolate beyond Oswald and to imply a wider plot would require that additional evidence, as Steve said. In my opinion, this is one case that will never be conclusively resolved.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
landmark
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Quote:
Jack, this phrase is mentioned several times in the quotes above "the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved". This only suggests the possibility, not the probability, that others may have been involved.


Read again:

Quote:
establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy.


and

Quote:
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.
tommy
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A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people. Oswald acting alone it can still be conspiracy if there was an agreement with others. i.e. if he was paid to do it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Steven Keyl
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Good points.

All that means, however, is that PROBABLY there was a second gunman, which means that PROBABLY there was a conspiracy. Why? Because the legal definition of conspiracy only requires 2 people.

I'm happy to follow the evidence, and if it shows that a second gunman is the most likely explanation of the data, then so be it. However, most conspiracy theorists depart from this narrow interpretation and supply all manner of additional explanation where there is NOT sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion. Tommy's mention of the Gehlen Organization above is a demonstration of that. Although more commonly we hear about organized crime, CIA, FBI, Cuba, USSR, and some plots that even include LBJ.

IF there were two people involved in the shooting, which by the way, is still unproven, that doesn't mean there was a network of shadowy operatives involved in a global conspiracy to kill JFK. All of those assertions would require evidence.
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"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Dannydoyle
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There was 1 gunman. He was caught.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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? And you know this how?
tommy
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The fact that there were two or more gunmen does not prove that the gunmen conspied with one another or anyone else actually. Hoever, one can infere that it was no coincidene.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2020, landmark wrote:
? And you know this how?


How do you know there was more than one? The shot can, and has been EASILY duplicated in EVERY way by many people. In sniper school it was an exercise the first week! It is NOWHERE NEAR as implausible as Jim Garrison or Oliver Stone would have you believe. It is easy to do it, it is easy to use that rifle, it is easy to get down the stairs and so forth. It is simply NOT a difficult shot.

Can you prove a giant raccoon fart didn't start the big bang? Obviously no you can't. Does this in any way lend credibility to the theory? Absolutely not. A non disprovable theory is not evidence of anything.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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The House Select Committee, which had access to a lot of evidence, believed there was a high probability of a second shooter. Not certainty, but a high probability.

Maintaining that there was one shooter without outlining other evidence not addressed by the Committee is not convincing in the face of that. If there are two competing theories, then the one with the higher probability is usually what most rational people go with, unless confronted with opposing evidence.

I certainly agree with you and Steve that the House evidence does not support Stone's theories, nor many others. But that's different from insisting that there was only one shooter.

There's a high probability of a second shooter says the Committee. And the implication of that is that for 50+ years, perhaps, there's someone out there who knows a whole lot more about this than anyone else.
tommy
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Has anybody ever duplicated the magic bullet shot?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2020, tommy wrote:
Has anybody ever duplicated the magic bullet shot?

Yes quite often.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Have they ever been questioned?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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tommy
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Is this one of then there dublications of the magic bullet shot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZRUNYZY71g
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Plaintext:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
The teapot did it.

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/se......-1a.html

* Perhaps the tapes were dublicated too. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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