Hi everyone

I've recently backed TCC's Chop Cup on Kickstarter and am excited to get practicing once it arrives; I've always loved the routines I've seen but have never explored it myself until now. In anticipation I've also bought WGM's - Chop Cup DVD but wanted to ask if anyone had any other recommendations or favourite routines they would recommend checking out?

Many thanks,
Andrew

I would recommend that you forget watching other routines. You know how the prop works. Discover your own routine. Let the prop speak to you. Don't worry about about what others do or have done. If you take the time you can end up with a 100% original routine that is 100% you.

It is a rare opportunity you have.

Great advice from Danny Doyle!

Also, deliberately think outside the norm.

A great example of this is Yann Frisch's FISM act. He would never have got to that finished routine if he had restricted his ideas to buying Michael Ammar's cups and balls videos (as good as they are).

Visualise the ideal routine in your head, without the boundaries of what has come before and then you can use previous works as reference to achieve most, if not all of it usually.

Kindest regards
Alan

As said already great advice by Danny that's definitely the way to go.

That's a really good point Danny thanks and also too everyone

Thanks guys.

I may seem adamant about this but I think it is just missing from magic today.

You never get an opportunity to unsee or unknow something. You can't go back mentally to that state of mind and you end up with that burden.

I know a self taught guitar player from Australia. He never knew what a bass guitar was. The result was him thinking her had to add all those parts on his guitar. He has a style nobody can duplicate. Nobody bothered to tell hin he couldn't do it so he just did.

Watching others do things gives you a strange sense of what should be instead odd being creative.

Sorry rant over.

I feel this also applies to learning from video in general. Yes, a video description of na effect can be valuable learning tool,
but, when your first experience with ANY experience on video, then your mind is forever biased to the "totality" rather then the incremental parts.

Consider that when you read a great novel, you can later see a movie allegedly based on the movie and still enjoy it - your mind placing differences in perspective.
But, when you see a movie first it is impossible to enjoy the novel. You do not get to form a mental image of a character - you only see the actor.

This problem is effecting education where video presentations now play a major part. Some schools are going back to an "incremental imaging" approach -
you, even comic books can be a better learning tool. The issue is not "visual" over reading, but embracing the total result first.

When you see a performance live, your mind also considers setting, lighting, distractions and the reason why you are there (expectations)
When you see a performance on video, the view is limited, selected by a cameraman and producer, and artificial in many ways.
You do not get to experience magic - you get to experience what a producer thought would be important.

rant ...

now, back to the theme of following instruction in the box or another person's routine.

You must mentally accept that what you learn about any effect/trick is someone else's opinion of how it should be performer. This is useful.
But, echoing Danny, you must not allow your personal innovation and creativity to be stifled.

Consider that any observer performance, instruction set (write or video) as an introduction of possibilities.

Nothing wrong with observing a dozen different presentations by others if it is viewed as a learning methodology -
just don't do it to "find the best one" to copy.

I have written several "chop cup" books that provide some alternatives to standard thinking. But, I would not suggest them to anyone
who has not performed a Chop Cup routine live many times. They are designed to prompt creativity, not teach method.

I even challenge the notion that a "weird final load" is necessary or even desirable. Heresy!

The point is that there is no "how to do chop cup" mandate or objective. If your objective is to create an experience of magic for your audience,
then ask "how can the use of a Chop Cup help me achieve my objective." There are are many "one cup" approaches other than standard Chop Cup that may be better.

It is also kind of scary when I find myself agreeing with Danny

Joshua Jay sent out a great "study guide" on the topic of the Chop Cup in one of Vanishing Inc's newsletters which might be helpful for this discussion:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/newsle......l/2.html

The TCC routine is great, but if you watched the full explanation from the Kickstarter video (not the basic one), you'll realize it's very angley. But it is a great example of thinking outside of the box. I've never seen another chop cup routine quite like it. Other than that, a good one to get you started might be the one in Tom Wright's Penguin lecture https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7991 The loads work especially well in a leather chop cup of the sort you'll get with the TCC project.

Dan Tong
David Roth
Mark James
Don Allen

A friend of mine who has performed the Chop Cup routine for years claims that "banging" the cup on the surface just before making the final load aids in its misdirection. I've watched Don Alan do this on video, yet I've always thought the technique was unnatural, jarring, and out of place. The technique never seemed to detract from the final effect of surprise on the spectator, but I was just wondering what other perfomers thought. Comments?

I spent many an hour with Don and this was his claim.

I think it is not needed.

I have used one for about 25 years and for me, and this is just an opinion, if you somehow need to "help" aid the misdirection by banging the cup on the table it might be time to work on your misdirection.

BUT with no context to see what he is referring to it is also pretty tough to put out a blanket statement of it being wrong.

I thought that I was the only one who felt this way. Don Alan's routine is so good; I'm a huge fan of his work. The banging the cup on the edge of the table always seemed like you were drawing attention to the load. He did that routine for years and it definitely fooled many, many laymen--so it obviously works. It just always seemed to be a strange approach to loading a cup.

To be fair his claim was it proved the cup was empty. I sat with him for more hours than I care to remember.

My position was simply picking up an inverted cup proved it was empty. No need for banging. Gravity is shunting everyone is familiar with so if you are pricing something at this point it is running with nobody chasing you.

I have been doing the chop cup routine professionally for over 20 years - I have three bits of advice
1) use the bigger chop cups - ideally that can take a large lemon - much more impactful.
2)don’t get hung up on the loading of lemons into the cup - as the reveal of the ball/lemon on the table from under the cup means you have enough misdirection to drag an elephant under the cup ready for your next load,
And lastly 3) make the last reveal one that moves or jumps around - it gets a fantastic reaction and not one for the fainted hearted!
Good luck

Anyone (besides funsway . He has sent me some awesome stuff already!) have any good chop cup material that doesn’t involve any gimmicks? Regular cup and ball moves only with borrowed items. I saw CHOP bu Craig Petty. Looks like some good magic but uses some gimmicks as well. Curious! I’m putting together a fun little routine with a flask and shot cup but it doesn’t have that UMPH that I am after.

I purchased my TCC Leather Chop Cup on their Kickstarter. However, I have never received the promised instructions - anyone else have this same issue?

You can reach out to them on FaceBook. They are pretty responsive and will share the link to the basic video instructions.

Try to get a copy of John bannons routine.
It’s called chop2 in Impossibilia.

Ron Wilson's routine from The Uncanny Scott.